shane victorino dives into the stands

[newump]

our friendly announcers have filled the airwaves with more misinformation. phils at houston, bases loaded, 2 outs, 3-2 pitch. 7th inn. houston up 4-3. foul fly ball down the right field line, victorino dives into the stands in an attempt to make a sensational catch and keep the game close. he doesn't make the catch. after numerous replays and a commercial break, gary matthews comments that the catch wouldn't have counted even if he had caught the ball. his colleague, chris wheeler agrees with him.
is there any question that this catch would have been good if it had been caught? 1 base award for the runners had there not been 2 outs, correct??

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by newump

our friendly announcers have filled the airwaves with more misinformation. phils at houston, bases loaded, 2 outs, 3-2 pitch. 7th inn. houston up 4-3. foul fly ball down the right field line, victorino dives into the stands in an attempt to make a sensational catch and keep the game close. he doesn't make the catch. after numerous replays and a commercial break, gary matthews comments that the catch wouldn't have counted even if he had caught the ball. his colleague, chris wheeler agrees with him.
is there any question that this catch would have been good if it had been caught? 1 base award for the runners had there not been 2 outs, correct??

If he landed in the stands before catching it - it wouldn't be a catch.

[newump]

i understand. he was clearly airborne - albeit, horizontal, when he almost caught the ball.

[charliej47]

The last time we discussed this it was decided that your position was from where your feet last touched when you left the ground on your leap to catch the ball. So it would have been an out and and a "catch and carry".

[newump]

i agree with charlie - his feet were in foul ground, but live ball territory, when he lept - he had yet to land when he came close to touching the ball. isn't that the determining factor?

[mbyron]

So it's like basketball: you are where you were till you get where you're going?

[tibear]

As per the changes to OBR for 2007:

6.05 A batter is out when—
(a) His fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a
fielder;
Rule 6.05(a) Comment: A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to
make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order
to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as
the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including
the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any
other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch,
falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead. Status
of runners shall be as described in Rule 7.04(c) Comment.

It is the position of the fielders feet when the ball is caught, not where they were when he jumped. i.e. If the fielder is completely over DBT when the ball is caught it is a foul ball and not an out.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by tibear

It is the position of the fielders feet when the ball is caught, not where they were when he jumped. i.e. If the fielder is completely over DBT when the ball is caught it is a foul ball and not an out.

Perhaps you didn't see the Web Gem by Nick Punto of the Twins. He took off while over the dugout lip (with both feet in the air) and made the catch up against the face of the dugout roof. He then landed with both feet in the dugout. This was an out, not a foul ball.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Perhaps you didn't see the Web Gem by Nick Punto of the Twins. He took off while over the dugout lip (with both feet in the air) and made the catch up against the face of the dugout roof. He then landed with both feet in the dugout. This was an out, not a foul ball.

As per the new rule set of 2007 at least one foot must be touching or over the edge of the playing surface and nothing touching the DBT ground in order for a catch to be legal.

I didn't see the catch but if the defender was completely over DBT when the ball was caught the umpires incorrectly called an out.

[charliej47]

I was using Nick Punto's catch as the basis for my statement. The MLB are still using the same ruling. Your feet determine where you are until you retouch the ground.

The same ruling is used in High School sports.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tibear

As per the new rule set of 2007 at least one foot must be touching or over the edge of the playing surface and nothing touching the DBT ground in order for a catch to be legal.

I didn't see the catch but if the defender was completely over DBT when the ball was caught the umpires incorrectly called an out.

I can see how the wording leads you to that conclusion, but I think you're misinterpreting the intent.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I can see how the wording leads you to that conclusion, but I think you're misinterpreting the intent.

Using the rule I quoted earlier in the thread (directly from MLB website) could you explain to me how the rule could be interpreted any other way but: "The fielder MUST have one foot on or over playing surface and nothing touching in DBT for a caught ball to be an out?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tibear

Using the rule I quoted earlier in the thread (directly from MLB website) could you explain to me how the rule could be interpreted any other way but: "The fielder MUST have one foot on or over playing surface and nothing touching in DBT for a caught ball to be an out?

Because if the wording just said "on the playing surface" than any catch in the air wouldn't be a catch.

My guess (and I admit it's just that) is that the "you are where you were until you get where you're going" rule applies, and a player who leaps from (entirely) live ball territory over (but not touching) dead ball territory can still make a legal catch.

[tibear]

Bob,

With all due respect I think the "or over the playing surface" deals directly with the leaping catch. I can't remember where I read it but I remember reading somewhere that the umpire is to try to line up the fielder's feet with the DBT when a catch is made. If the feet are completely in DBT(on ground or in the air) then it is to be ruled a foul ball.