Balk Followed by Hit

[tibear]

In OBR a balk is a delayed dead ball situation. If as a result of the pitch, every runner AND the batter advance at least one base then the balk is ignored. Otherwise the pitch is ignored and the balk enforced.

So in your situation, the balk would be ignored because R1 advanced at least to second AND the batter safely reached first.

From what I've seen on this website I believe using the FED rulebook a balk is an immediate deadball situation, so the runner would be advanced to second and the batter remains at the plate.

Difference in rulebooks:

OBR: "That's a balk!.....wait for play to end..(if all runners don't advance at least one base or batter doesn't reach first) TIME!!!!"
FED: "TIME!! That's a balk!"

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tibear

Difference in rulebooks:

OBR: "That's a balk!.....wait for play to end..(if all runners don't advance at least one base or batter doesn't reach first) TIME!!!!"
FED: "TIME!! That's a balk!"

Actually, the more recommended method for FED is "That's a balk...Time!"

This way, your balk call remains consistent when using either rule set.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by tibear

.

Difference in rulebooks:

OBR: "That's a balk!.....wait for play to end..(if all runners don't advance at least one base or batter doesn't reach first) TIME!!!!"
FED: "TIME!! That's a balk!"

Correct.

Calling balks properly when working under FED helps prevent unnecessary discussions.

Callin balks in the same manner under both codes might be helpful to those who can't remember which rule is applicable, but if you still have at least three remaining brain cells functioning, it is an unnecessary crutch.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Correct.

Calling balks properly when working under FED helps prevent unnecessary discussions.

Callin balks in the same manner under both codes might be helpful to those who can't remember which rule is applicable, but if you still have at least three remaining brain cells functioning, it is an unnecessary crutch.

There is no "proper" way to call a FED balk. Mechanics are not discussed in the rulebook and the FED mechanics manual is best thrown out when received.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

There is no "proper" way to call a FED balk. Mechanics are not discussed in the rulebook and the FED mechanics manual is best thrown out when received.

C'mon, Rich. You're right about pitching the FED ump manual, but surely FED is entitled to their view concerning the enforcement of their balk rule. We could refer to this as the "proper" way.

Am I missing your larger point? You're not usually one to quibble...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

C'mon, Rich. You're right about pitching the FED ump manual, but surely FED is entitled to their view concerning the enforcement of their balk rule. We could refer to this as the "proper" way.

Am I missing your larger point? You're not usually one to quibble...

Yes, I think you're missing the larger point. Rich is talking about the way the balk is called, not the enforcement of the rule.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, I think you're missing the larger point. Rich is talking about the way the balk is called, not the enforcement of the rule.

Exactly. In other words, someone with a FED manual -- does it actually prescribe the words and the order in which they're to be said?

Even if it DOES, it really doesn't matter unless you use the FED mechanics for EVERYTHING else.

[UmpJM]

Rich,

Verbatim from the 2007 FED Umpire Manual (#22 on p.17 for those following along at home):

22. When a balk occurs, the ball is dead immediately. Whenever a balk occurs, the umpire will throw up his hands, which signifies the ball is dead, and call "balk." ...

And you throw this gem away?!?!? I find it makes an excellent coaster.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Correct.

Calling balks properly when working under FED helps prevent unnecessary discussions.

Callin balks in the same manner under both codes might be helpful to those who can't remember which rule is applicable, but if you still have at least three remaining brain cells functioning, it is an unnecessary crutch.

We just had this discussion in the following thread. Rich suggested the way that I quoted, and I didn't hear that it was a crutch at that time. I don't see it as a "crutch," but as a practical way of doing things.

HS Season over, here comes summer ball

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

We just had this discussion in the following thread. Rich suggested the way that I quoted, and I didn't hear that it was a crutch at that time. I don't see it as a "crutch," but as a practical way of doing things.

HS Season over, here comes summer ball

Thanks for the URL showing at least I'm consistent.

To me, practical would be to call time immediately in FED to let everyone know that play is over and keep the whining to a minimum should the pitcher pitch and the batter hit the ball.


As I said in the thread you referenced...When I can't remember the code under which I'm working, I'll retire.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Thanks for the URL showing at least I'm consistent.

To me, practical would be to call time immediately in FED to let everyone know that play is over and keep the whining to a minimum should the pitcher pitch and the batter hit the ball.


As I said in the thread you referenced...When I can't remember the code under which I'm working, I'll retire.

It really has nothing at all to do with whether one can or can't remember which rule set is being used. It has more to do with style, as it just looks cooler to point and say "that's a balk." followed immediately by "Time." The one second delay between the two phrases is not going to confuse anyone or cause any whining.

The call of "Time" can mean just about any reason for killing the ball, whereas if it is preceded by "That's a balk," there is no confusion as to why it is being called.

Garth, by all means do it the way you want. Just don't consider those who do it differently to be using it as a crutch, or because they don't know WTF they are doing, because that is just not the case.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It really has nothing at all to do with whether one can or can't remember which rule set is being used. It has more to do with style, as it just looks cooler to point and say "that's a balk." followed immediately by "Time." The one second delay between the two phrases is not going to confuse anyone or cause any whining.

That is not what was being discussed.

The two methods being discussed were the OBR....


"That's a balk" (Wait for play to end) "TIME! That's a balk."

And FED:

"TIME! That's a balk."

There can be, and often is, a significant difference.

Do what you want. I believe in this instance there is a right and wrong.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

That is not what was being discussed.

The two methods being discussed were the OBR....


"That's a balk" (Wait for play to end) "TIME! That's a balk."

And FED:

"TIME! That's a balk."

There can be, and often is, a significant difference.

Do what you want. I believe in this instance there is a right and wrong.

"That's a balk" is IMMEDIATELY followed by TIME in FED games. There is no difference at all.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by GarthB

To me, practical would be to call time immediately in FED to let everyone know that play is over....

As you should, good call!

and keep the whining to a minimum should the pitcher pitch and the batter hit the ball.

Interesting approach. Officiating strategies by whine meter.

As I said in the thread you referenced...When I can't remember the code under which I'm working, I'll retire.

Then retire since no one knows the entire code and much left open for interp...as is consistently demonstrated here...by you.

No need to respond, I'm on your Ignore List, as you have publicly announced. Hmmm, wonder why that is?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Then retire since no one knows the entire code and much left open for interp...as is consistently demonstrated here...by you.

They may not know the entire code or understand all the intricacies of how to apply the rules of a particular rules code, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say most here know what code they're working under during a game.

Originally Posted by fitump56

No need to respond, I'm on your Ignore List, as you have publicly announced. Hmmm, wonder why that is?

I don't think there's anything for you to wonder about.


Tim.