OBR Intentionally Dropped Flyball

[Pete in AZ]

Sitch -
R1 and no outs with pro rules. Pop up to no mans land off the right of the mound. 1B and 2B call for it and the pitcher is doing the same thing. R1 is holding. 2B has the ball glance off his glove and the pitcher yells to trow it to SS at second who relays it to first for the DP. 3BU calls R1 out and 1BU calls BR out. The HPU heads out waving his arms and calls the whole thing off. He places R1 back and calls the batter out do to an intentionally dropped flyball. The dugouts go ape**** and the fans are scratching their heads. I'm happy to be watching all of this go on from the stands.

I know what 6.05 (l) says...what do you think?

What if the ball had been hit to short right field and the RF did the same thing to get the DP?

The reason for this is I had a tie game in the last inning the other day and a long foul fly ball down the LF line with one out. R3 is going to score easily if LF catches it. He camps under it and his teamates are screaming for him to let it go. At the last second he realizes it and does. I got nothing but the 3B coach starts screaming about travesty of the game and all kinds of BS. Why is the rule any different, advantage to the fielder either way.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

Sitch -The reason for this is I had a tie game in the last inning the other day and a long foul fly ball down the LF line with one out. R3 is going to score easily if LF catches it. He camps under it and his teamates are screaming for him to let it go. At the last second he realizes it and does. I got nothing but the 3B coach starts screaming about travesty of the game and all kinds of BS. Why is the rule any different, advantage to the fielder either way.

Because the rule is specific...it applies only to an infielder. Even if this were an infielder, the play would be legal because the ball was allowed to fall untouched. (See the Approved Ruling for 6.05(l)

[Shmuelg]

I think the PU blew it big-time. Both BU's made the call, and the PU should let it stand. If the coaches think otherwise, they can ask the PUs to ask for help, and if they do, then the three of them confer.

Besides, it is VERY difficult to see if the drop was intentional or not. If I'm not sure, I would assume it was not, UNLESS the level of play in the game is very high (like MLB or AAA, say), and then I *still* would let the BUs make the call.

Remember, a fair ball, not catched is not a call at all, you just stay quiet.

Shmuel

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Because the rule is specific...it applies only to an infielder. Even if this were an infielder, the play would be legal because the ball was allowed to fall untouched. (See the Approved Ruling for 6.05(l)

In the OP situation, it was "a long fly ball". So the better reason why this situation is different is that it was a foul ball, and 6.05(l) doesn't apply. And it is different to the coach also: if the ball were fair, he'd be pleased that the outfielder dropped it, intentionally or not.

Lastly, I find it interesting that while OBR, NCAA, and FED all refer to an "infielder" intentionally dropping the ball, J/R refer simply to a "fielder". I suppose that it is practically very difficult for an outfielder to intentionally drop a ball and actually double off a B/R who is striving to reach first base. So perhaps J/R imply that the spirit of the rule applies to a outfielder who is playing veryshallow?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Shmuelg

I think the PU blew it big-time. Both BU's made the call, and the PU should let it stand. If the coaches think otherwise, they can ask the PUs to ask for help, and if they do, then the three of them confer.

Besides, it is VERY difficult to see if the drop was intentional or not. If I'm not sure, I would assume it was not, UNLESS the level of play in the game is very high (like MLB or AAA, say), and then I *still* would let the BUs make the call.

Remember, a fair ball, not catched is not a call at all, you just stay quiet.

Shmuel

Wow. Where to begin?

1. Pop-ups near the mound are PU's catch/no-catch.
2. An umpire who does not have catch/no-catch usually has other responsibilities.
3. Coaches cannot appeal to my partner for anything that's mine, though I can decide to ask him for help if I need it. If I were PU here, I can't see asking partners for help (see #2). Do your job, cover your responsibilities, get your calls.
4. Judging whether a ball is intentionally dropped is always HTBT. I don't see how anyone can tell whether PU got it right.
5. I've called this once in the last 5 years, and it was quite obvious. I was BU, and it was a soft liner at F4, right in front of me. Nobody else on the field happened to know the rule, but there were no complaints.
6. Very often you do NOT remain quiet on a fair ball not caught. E.G. Runners on base, liner to RF, F9 runs in but traps the ball. I will holler "no catch! no catch!" and signal "safe."

There's just no telling what you'll find on the internet.

[BretMan]

Funny you should mention this play.

Earlier today I was wondering which calls are amongst the rarest in the game. Thinking about the intentional drop, I have also made this call exactly once in a similar five-year span (covering about 400 games).

Luckily for you that when you made the call you received no complaints.

When I made it, everybody on the field looked at me like I was from Mars! I had to use my persausive powers to convince them that I wasn't just making stuff up.

But it was a blatant drop and my call stood.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

Sitch -
R1 and no outs with pro rules. Pop up to no mans land off the right of the mound. 1B and 2B call for it and the pitcher is doing the same thing. R1 is holding. 2B has the ball glance off his glove and the pitcher yells to trow it to SS at second who relays it to first for the DP. 3BU calls R1 out and 1BU calls BR out. The HPU heads out waving his arms and calls the whole thing off. He places R1 back and calls the batter out do to an intentionally dropped flyball. The dugouts go ape**** and the fans are scratching their heads. I'm happy to be watching all of this go on from the stands.

I know what 6.05 (l) says...what do you think?

What if the ball had been hit to short right field and the RF did the same thing to get the DP?

The reason for this is I had a tie game in the last inning the other day and a long foul fly ball down the LF line with one out. R3 is going to score easily if LF catches it. He camps under it and his teamates are screaming for him to let it go. At the last second he realizes it and does. I got nothing but the 3B coach starts screaming about travesty of the game and all kinds of BS. Why is the rule any different, advantage to the fielder either way.

Because it is a F-O-U-L B-A-L-L and NO RUNNER is in jeopardy.


It is called COMMON SENSE.

I would run the coach for stupidity.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Because the rule is specific...it applies only to an infielder. Even if this were an infielder, the play would be legal because the ball was allowed to fall untouched. (See the Approved Ruling for 6.05(l)

What part of "2B has the ball glance off his glove..." don't you understand?

By the way, if the ball 'glanced' off F4's glove, it's not intentionally dropped.

Bob

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by mbyron

1. Pop-ups near the mound are PU's catch/no-catch.

Including when 1 has to turn his back and blocks view?

3. Coaches cannot appeal to my partner for anything that's mine, though I can decide to ask him for help if I need it. If I were PU here, I can't see asking partners for help (see #2). Do your job, cover your responsibilities, get your calls.

Asking for help and getting concurrence are entirely two different things. Often concurrence is a shuterupper.

6. Very often you do NOT remain quiet on a fair ball not caught. E.G. Runners on base, liner to RF, F9 runs in but traps the ball. I will holler "no catch! no catch!" and signal "safe."

FBNC is a vocal in any circumstance, agree/no agree?

There's just no telling what you'll find on the internet.

Like this forum?

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

What part of "2B has the ball glance off his glove..." don't you understand?
By the way, if the ball 'glanced' off F4's glove, it's not intentionally dropped.
Bob

I quoted the second part of the post...where he talked about the LF letting the ball drop. Please read carefully before you jump down my throat.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

Sitch -
R1 and no outs with pro rules. Pop up to no mans land off the right of the mound.

WTF was the BR doing that he didn't make it to first on a pop-up that's dropped and then thrown to second?

That said, it's judgment as to whether it was intentionally dropped or not. If it was, then PU made the correct call.

[greymule]

WTF was the BR doing that he didn't make it to first on a pop-up that's dropped and then thrown to second?

Thanks, Bob. That's the first thing that came to my mind, too.

[aceholleran]

30+ years--have never made this call. Not even close.

Ace