Fireworks!

GarthB · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 17, 2007, 10:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Sorry in advance for the long post. I'm looking for comments/advice on my game management. U16 Sandy Koafax DH. Lets say both my partner and I knew it would be a long day when the visiting coach whines about the balls that the home coach provided for the first game. I'm BU for first game.

1st inning, Visiting F1 balks. I call and award. Visiting manager comes out of the dugout, wanting an explanation. I motion with my left leg to indicate to him the reason for the balk. He then yells "Can I appeal that to him?" I responded "appeal what?". "The balk". PU simply yells lets play and we go about our buisness. No more problems as they win by run rule.

2nd game, I'm PU. Felt I called a really good game, but of course the visiting team (who was now the home team) didn't think so as they went down several runs early on. Early on, visiting pitcher throws a curveball that strikes batter in the backfoot (he was dancing around in the box as he was going to bunt). I award 1st, and the pitcher yells in "that was a strike!". Coach says some more from the dugout but I ignore.

My partner has a banger at 2nd, and we have more flareups. Manager (who is 3rd base coach) is standing in fair territory after the call, with a live ball, clearly upset with my partner. My partner gives him a finger in the air and tells him to get into the box. He retreats back to his box, loudly, and has some words with me in between innings about the call. Still he was just being annoying more than anything.

Then, I call a strike on his batter that he didn't like (I didn't use proper timing and the catcher made the pitch look bad because he thought a squeeze was on, I probably should have called ball). He says one thing from the third base box about the call. Then a pause, and another thing. I took my mask off and approached him, walking swiftly. I asked, perhaps from 10 feet away, as we were converging on each other "Are you going to argue balls and strikes?". He looked dumbfounded, and I said "I'm going to leave the decision to you. Are you going to argue balls and strikes?" He responded by saying "I don't know. Haven't made up my mind yet". I turn and walk back to the plate, assuming that he's going to say something that is going to get himself tossed. He yells at his assistant, "John, should I argue balls and strikes?" We play on.

I overhear him talking with the other coach later that inning saying that he was going to try to get himself tossed to fire his team up. So I know its coming. Next inning, another banger at first, and he walks to about 10 feet from the plate (from the coaches box), standing there looking at my partner. I know what's coming, but I step out in between my partner and him and tell him to get back to his box. Of course, he yells more and my partner tosses him. He then gets really heated on my partner, and I shadow him as to not allow him to get close (never within 20 feet) of my partner. He tosses his sunglasses at my partner, says the typical rat stuff, gets in the dugout, yells at his team "LETS F***** WIN!", walks up the hill, gives a big wave to the field, and leaves. I walked him all the way to the dugout, then eyed him out of the field.

Then in the parking lot, he's all apologies while he's driving out with the window down (I saw him coming and told my partner get your car started), but he's also so proud of what he did to fire his team up. Assistant is in the car with him with his eyes rolling.

So my question, is there any point before the ejection where I should have hooked him? Or was there anything I could have done or said that could have avoided this? Any other comments or suggestions? As I've said, game management was my number one goal this year, so I'm curious to read responses. Thanks in advance, at least for letting me vent.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/456427.stm

ctblu40 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 18, 2007, 08:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/456427.stm

he he he...

HA HA HA!

STOP IT! YER KILLING ME!

charliej47 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 18, 2007, 10:58am

I once called a balk on a 16 year old pitcher and he came off the mound and yelled at me about it. As he turned to walk back up the mound, I took off my mask and told him to go to the dugout. The manager came out and started to argue, I told him to go to his car. Everybody stopped and it got very quiet. I stated that we would have a ballgame or we would all go home. Everything settled down and it was a good game.

TussAgee11 · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 17, 2007, 10:44pm

Thanks Garth. Appreciate the insightful feedback.

Jim Porter · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 17, 2007, 11:08pm

First of all, I want to preface my remarks by saying that it has been my experience that this level of baseball tends to be the worst in regards to difficulties with coaches. The coaches tend not to have the experience of a high school coach, they see themselves at a higher level than they truly are, and think it's their jobs to yell and complain at the umpires.

That being said, it behooves the umpire to show very early that he's in control. You failed in your first confrontation. A balk call is not something up for discussion. At worst, you can explain, "No step before the throw," or whatever, and that should be it. When he hollered about appealing, it was your chance to take control. Instead, your partner did it -- and not with very much authority. That little incident showed how much you guys would tolerate, and set the stage for the rest of the day.

Don't mistake me, I wouldn't have ejected the coach for the balk exchange, but I would have made it clear that I judged a balk, it was my call, there would be no further discussion, and he needed to leave the field immediately.

If you had handled the first confrontation with authority, the other, "flare-ups," likely would've been far lesser in scale -- or at the very least it would've taken a look or a few words from you to regain control. You and your partner were clearly not in control.

Proof positive of your lack of control was the coach who entered the field during live play. All he got for his serious breach of conduct was a finger pointing him back into his box. That allowed him to continue his whining. I never would've tolerated that. If I didn't eject him for entering the field like that, I definitely would've made it clear that such behavior wouldn't be tolerated in any way, shape, or form. When he continued his yelling I would've dumped him right there and then.

Approaching the belly-aching base coach was also a big mistake. Never approach a coach who is belly-aching. Instead, step around to the front of home plate and take control from there. You are in charge of the field, and you need to act like it. Confronting him physically made you look out-of-control.

As has been pointed out, never ask a question like that. Instead, issue commands. "There will be no arguing balls and strikes!" Once again, you are in control of the field. You need to act like it.

Coaches at this level are going to challenge you eventually. They want to control you. Don't let them. Establish your authority and control early and often.

TussAgee11 · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 17, 2007, 11:24pm

Thanks Jim. Appreciate the comments and advice. Something I'll put in my memory bank to be used next time I see potential for problems.

Regarding the balk, my response of "appeal what" was made more in a way of "c'mon coach you've got to be kidding". I see that if I had given him the stop sign and said "not today" maybe problems in the 2nd game could have been avoided.

When he was in LBT there were no runners on, which to me, lessened the offense. Also, only one or two steps in, almost debating whether or not he wanted to go talk with BU.

I agree that obviously control was lost, but perhaps it was never had in the first place, as you point out. Thanks.

Jim Porter · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 17, 2007, 11:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Regarding the balk, my response of "appeal what" was made more in a way of "c'mon coach you've got to be kidding".

Unless the participants know you well, there is no room for sarcasm. Be clear and succinct.

SanDiegoSteve · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 18, 2007, 01:13am

well my approach today was something that SDS has suggested to me in a previous thread.

I believe I said that I would say, "Are you arguing balls and strikes?" I do not believe I said anything about, "Are you going to argue balls and strikes?"

I ask a direct question concerning his current behavior, not about what he is going to do in the near future.

"Are you arguing balls and strikes?" Answer: "Yes." Dump him.
"Are you arguing balls and strikes?" Answer: "No." Let him stay, and he really has nowhere to take the argument, as he has just said that he's not arguing. If he starts to argue again, dump him.

Jim Porter · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 18, 2007, 01:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

"Are you arguing balls and strikes?" Answer: "Yes." Dump him.
"Are you arguing balls and strikes?" Answer: "No." Let him stay, and he really has nowhere to take the argument, as he has just said that he's not arguing. If he starts to argue again, dump him.

Sorry Steve, but I disagree. In theory it sounds good, but asking him a question opens the door for all kinds of responses, putting you in an untenable position, and passing momentary control over to him. Don't ask questions -- make statements, issue dictates, show everyone that you are the authority, and always demonstrate through language, expression, and posture that you are in control.

Just to be clear, I don't mean to sound like I advocate all-out dictatorship on the diamond -- there is a way to be quietly and confidently in charge -- to be affable without yielding your authority -- to be compelling without being autocratic. Don't be a pushover, but don't be domineering either.

Cub42 · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 18, 2007, 01:52am

As stated earlier, this level of ball is notorious for teams being coached by clueless parents. Here is some ideas on how to handle these kind of situations.

1) Balk-After you call this, if the coach needs an explanation, give him one. However, do not let him get the theatrics started by shouting from the dugout or across the field. This only tends to turn the focus on you and your partner, and not the play or the players. Have a one on one with him and tell him what the pitcher did, then let him know that there is no more discussion.

2) Arguing Balls and Strikes- Simply stated, there is no arguing balls and strikes. Do not ask him, or bait him. When he starts, shut it down immediately. Issue him a warning for this. Then be prepared to run him if he continues. Warnings are useless unless they are followed up on. Remember, Umpires do not eject managers or players, managers and players eject themselves.

3) If you heard him state he wanted to get tossed, make no mistake about it, he wanted you to hear this. I do not believe this is a case of rabbit ears. This I would think was a direct challenge to you and your partner. At this point, you have 2 choices. Ignore it and wait for a total s---house to erupt, or engage him and let him know right then and there that if he wants to go, he can go right now. He will not be allowed to make a mockery out of the game. This kind of behavior needs to be reported to your UIC, and the league president, in written form. Game Mgt is the most important skill an Umpire needs to possess in this level of ball