Re-entry/courtesy

[TriggerMN]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

This is correct. There's a specific FED interp on this that has been posted several times on this and other web sites.

This happened in my state tournament game on Friday which I plated. I gave them the okay to re-enter the pitcher, then courtesy run (without making the ball live). Crew chief came in and told me it was not allowed, so we disallowed the substitution. We asked our observer about it after the game. He said he was not sure on the rule, but we did the right thing "in the spirit of the game."

Heck, it was my first state tournament, I just wanted to get the thing right.

[charliej47]

The NFHS publishes a "Rules by Topic" book every year. It discusses the courtesy runner and how they are allowed to be used. I buy them at the annual state meeting for I think $6 or $9 dollars. This book covers all of the situations very well and explains what is allowed.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by charliej47

The NFHS publishes a "Rules by Topic" book every year. It discusses the courtesy runner and how they are allowed to be used. I buy them at the annual state meeting for I think $6 or $9 dollars. This book covers all of the situations very well and explains what is allowed.

So what does it say about this particular situation ?

[charliej47]

What you have to look at is the pitching rule. You have #5 as the Pitcher of Record. #25 comes is as a substitute and bats for #5. #5 re-enters for #25. Number #25 never pitches to anybody so he can not be a pitcher during this game. With #5 on-base, the coach can now enter a courtesy runner, number #13 for #5. As stated the courtesy runner is for the position, not the person. You have to decide did they violate the pitching rule, they did not violate the courtesy runner rule. When you dis-allowed them that option, you screwed the pooch.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by charliej47

What you have to look at is the pitching rule. You have #5 as the Pitcher of Record. #25 comes is as a substitute and bats for #5. #5 re-enters for #25. Number #25 never pitches to anybody so he can not be a pitcher during this game. With #5 on-base, the coach can now enter a courtesy runner, number #13 for #5.

The rules are the rules and if that's how they're interpreted then so be it, but it goes against the intent.

The courtesy runner rule for F1 and F2 is a speed up rule and intended to get F1 and F2 on the diamond quicker after their offensive half inning.
In this situation #5, by rule, cannot pitch the next half inning so the courtesy runner rule is written badly if it allows this to happen.

Originally Posted by charliej47

:As stated the courtesy runner is for the position, not the person. You have to decide did they violate the pitching rule, they did not violate the courtesy runner rule. When you dis-allowed them that option, you screwed the pooch.

He may have "screwed the pooch" relative to the letter of the rule, but upheld the intent of the rule.
Which is more important?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

The rules are the rules and if that's how they're interpreted then so be it, but it goes against the intent.

The courtesy runner rule for F1 and F2 is a speed up rule and intended to get F1 and F2 on the diamond quicker after their offensive half inning.
In this situation #5, by rule, cannot pitch the next half inning so the courtesy runner rule is written badly if it allows this to happen.

Why can't #5 pitch the next inning?

The exact play (well, they didn't use numbers 5 and 25), was in the FED 2005 interps. It's legal.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why can't #5 pitch the next inning?

The exact play (well, they didn't use numbers 5 and 25), was in the FED 2005 interps. It's legal.

Bob,

I didn't have my rules with me and I'm sorry if I misspoke.
I thought that if F1 came out of the game he could not reenter as F1.
Is that only if he is removed while on defense as opposed to this sitch where another F1 has not pitched?

[Rich Ives]

Bob Jenkins posted the following on the ABUA site


3.1.1N: "Therefore, a courtesy runner should onlybe allowed to run for the player who was the catcher on defense before coming to bat."

FED 2005 Interps, Situation 2: In the home half of the third inning, Team A's catcher is legally pinch-hit for by S1. S1 draws a walk, and the coach legally re-enters the catcher. Now, with the catcher on first base, the home team's coach requests and uses a courtesy runner for the catcher. RULING: This is a legal use of the courtesy runner.




While this is about the catcher, the situation would seem to apply to the pitcher also.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Bob Jenkins posted the following on the ABUA site


3.1.1N: "Therefore, a courtesy runner should onlybe allowed to run for the player who was the catcher on defense before coming to bat."

FED 2005 Interps, Situation 2: In the home half of the third inning, Team A's catcher is legally pinch-hit for by S1. S1 draws a walk, and the coach legally re-enters the catcher. Now, with the catcher on first base, the home team's coach requests and uses a courtesy runner for the catcher. RULING: This is a legal use of the courtesy runner.




While this is about the catcher, the situation would seem to apply to the pitcher also.

That's where I'm confused.
F2 can leave the game and legally reenter as F2 therefore for the purpose of the courtesy runner it makes sense, however if F1 leaves the game I didn't think he could re enter as F1. My earlier post asked the ?, can F1 leave the game in his offensive half of the inning and re enter as F1 in the following defensive half inning?