Runners hit by batted balls

[Tabe]

As a bit of an intro:

This is my first post here. I am not an official, nor do I coach anymore. I've come here looking for explanations of rules and things that I can't seem to find anywhere else

That said, the following came up in my nephew's Little League game last night:

Runner on 3rd, two outs. Batter hit a line drive that struck the runner. Runner was either standing on, or jumping into the air above, 3rd base when struck.

Who, if anyone, should be out in this situation?

As it played out, the umpire (a high school kid who was in a little over his head) made no verbal announcement of a call. My nephew's coach asked for the runner to be called out, the opposing team argued the runner was safe because he was physically on 3rd when struck. I then said if the runner was on 3rd that the ball was still live, so the catcher threw to 1st to force the batter. After some discussion, the umpire finally ruled - incorrectly - that the ball was a foul ball and play continued.

I have looked in the official rules on the MLB.com site and I can't find anything that specifically states a batter is out when struck by a batted ball except in cases of interference - which this wasn't - or on an Infield Fly, which also doesn't apply here.

Any assistance, especially one that points to an official rule, would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Tabe

[shickenbottom]

Any runner who is over fair territory and is struck by a batted ball prior to passing a fielder is out, there is no protection by being in contact with the bag. There are a few exceptions to note: 1) There is an infield fly and the runner is in contact with the bag when struck with the batted ball - Ball is dead, Batter is out and runner is safe. 2) Ball is deflected by a fielder and no other fielder can make a play on the ball - ball is live and runner is not out.

There are a couple more that I would need to think about, however, in your sitch, if the umpire felt that ball was over foul territory when it struck the runner, it is just a foul ball.

Hope this helps.

[SanDiegoSteve]

First of all, you are looking to a MLB rule for Little League. These two sets of rules are not the same. Little League has their own rule book, based somewhat on Official Baseball Rules (OBR).

Secondly, if the runner was in fair territory, and hit by a fair ball, then he is out, and the ball is dead. See rule 7.08 (f). The only exemption from being out when hit by a fair batted ball in fair territory before the ball has passed or touched an infielder is if he is standing on his base on an Infield Fly.

Since this was not an IFF situation, the runner is out if he was hit by a fair ball in fair territory, whether or not he was standing on a base. Now, this teenage umpire called it a foul ball, which while possibly incorrect, was the call he made. It is a judgment call, so it can't be argued or protested, even though it looks like he made the call just to get out of actually giving a proper ruling on the play.

In "real" baseball, the runner would have been leading off the base in foul territory, and this situation would not have occurred. But since this is Little League Baseball®, there is no leading off, and the likelihood of the runner being on the base or over the base in fair territory is greater.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I have looked in the official rules on the MLB.com site and I can't find anything that specifically states a batter is out when struck by a batted ball except in cases of interference - which this wasn't - or on an Infield Fly, which also doesn't apply here.

7.08

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;


note that, expcet for the IFF, there is no distinction between physically touching a base or not

[mbyron]

We might also note that it matters where the batted ball struck the runner. If the runner has one foot on the base (which is in fair territory), the other foot in foul territory, and the batted ball strikes him in the leg over foul territory, then the ball is foul. If it strikes him on the other leg and over fair territory, then the ball is dead and the runner is out. The batter would be awarded 1B if this were not the 3rd out.

Fair/foul in this case depends on where the ball is, not where the runner is.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

First of all, you are looking to a MLB rule for Little League. These two sets of rules are not the same. Little League has their own rule book, based somewhat on Official Baseball Rules (OBR).

Secondly, if the runner was in fair territory, and hit by a fair ball, then he is out, and the ball is dead. See rule 7.08 (f). The only exemption from being out when hit by a fair batted ball in fair territory before the ball has passed or touched an infielder is if he is standing on his base on an Infield Fly.

Since this was not an IFF situation, the runner is out if he was hit by a fair ball in fair territory, whether or not he was standing on a base. Now, this teenage umpire called it a foul ball, which while possibly incorrect, was the call he made. It is a judgment call, so it can't be argued or protested, even though it looks like he made the call just to get out of actually giving a proper ruling on the play.

I "real" baseball, the runner would have been leading off the base in foul territory, and this situation would not have occurred. But since this is Little League Baseball®, there is no leading off, and the likelihood of the runner being on the base or over the base in fair territory is greater.

LL is "somewhat" based on OBR? It's about 95% OBR.

The hit by batted ball rule is the same.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tabe

As a bit of an intro:

This is my first post here. I am not an official, nor do I coach anymore. I've come here looking for explanations of rules and things that I can't seem to find anywhere else

That said, the following came up in my nephew's Little League game last night:

Runner on 3rd, two outs. Batter hit a line drive that struck the runner. Runner was either standing on, or jumping into the air above, 3rd base when struck.

Who, if anyone, should be out in this situation?

As it played out, the umpire (a high school kid who was in a little over his head) made no verbal announcement of a call. My nephew's coach asked for the runner to be called out, the opposing team argued the runner was safe because he was physically on 3rd when struck. I then said if the runner was on 3rd that the ball was still live, so the catcher threw to 1st to force the batter. After some discussion, the umpire finally ruled - incorrectly - that the ball was a foul ball and play continued.

I have looked in the official rules on the MLB.com site and I can't find anything that specifically states a batter is out when struck by a batted ball except in cases of interference - which this wasn't - or on an Infield Fly, which also doesn't apply here.

Any assistance, especially one that points to an official rule, would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Tabe

If it's a fair ball, R3 is out. Place the BR on first. The base is not a safe haven, with the exception of an IFF.

[Tabe]

Thank you for all the responses. In looking up the rules, I really had no choice but to go with the OBR as Little League does not publish their rules online and also doesn't allow them to be ordered except by the leagues themselves.

I read over rule 7.08 several times and still somehow missed 7.08 (f).

Anyway, thank you for clarifying the rules. Very much appreciated.

Tabe

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

LL is "somewhat" based on OBR? It's about 95% OBR.

The hit by batted ball rule is the same.

I just didn't want Tabe to get in the habit of looking up LL situations at the MLB site, but to go invest in the Little Green Book instead. There are some major differences of which he may not be aware.

I'm glad to see you are right on top of this issue, and quick to pick apart my otherwise excellent post.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I'm glad to see you are right on top of this issue, and quick to pick apart my otherwise excellent post.

It's his job. He's a coach.

[LakeErieUmp]

You could put BR on first, Rich, but he'd feel kinda weird standing there seein how it's three outs and he should be in his fielding position! (please see this as lighthearted frivolity as it is meant!)

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Tabe

As a bit of an intro:

This is my first post here. I am not an official, nor do I coach anymore. I've come here looking for explanations of rules and things that I can't seem to find anywhere else

As it played out, the umpire (a high school kid who was in a little over his head) made no verbal announcement of a call. My nephew's coach asked for the runner to be called out, the opposing team argued the runner was safe because he was physically on 3rd when struck. I then said if the runner was on 3rd that the ball was still live, so the catcher threw to 1st to force the batter. After some discussion, the umpire finally ruled - incorrectly - that the ball was a foul ball and play continued.

Any assistance, especially one that points to an official rule, would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Tabe

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

If it's a fair ball, R3 is out. Place the BR on first. The base is not a safe haven, with the exception of an IFF.

Tabe,

You stated in the above post that you are not an official and do not coach anymore. Why were you asking the umpire any questions? What surprises me is that the umpire answered you.

Umpiring 101:

DO NOT interact with spectators.

I agree with Rich Fronheiser’s answer.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

You could put BR on first, Rich, but he'd feel kinda weird standing there seein how it's three outs and he should be in his fielding position! (please see this as lighthearted frivolity as it is meant!)

He'd be put on first *in the book*, then.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I just didn't want Tabe to get in the habit of looking up LL situations at the MLB site, but to go invest in the Little Green Book instead. There are some major differences of which he may not be aware.

I'm glad to see you are right on top of this issue, and quick to pick apart my otherwise excellent post.

You need the OBR for LL because many of the comments and ARs that apply are omitted from the LL book to save space.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by GarthB

It's his job. He's a coach.

Or just perhaps I know something about LL rules and the necessity for info other than just the official LL rule book.