Sunday Night Baseball

[SanDiegoSteve]

I know, I know. . .

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes I was. Morgan kept trying to bait Smoltz into saying that Wolf should not have ejected Lilly. Smoltz kept rephrasing his answer to indicate that sometimes the umpires need to step in and do something, and other times the players can take care of it. Morgan wanted Smoltz to throw Wolf under the bus, and to his credit, he did not take the bait.

Now, get back under your bridge please, as you have now asked your allotted 3 questions.

LOL

Nothing in that interview could possibly be construed as Morgan baiting anyone.

Prior to and after that interview Morgan said he disagreed with the umpire's ejection.

And Morgan is entitled to his opinion, since he is being paid to offer an opinion.

If you cannot stand disagreement with calls by umpires then you should not be an umpire.



And the ejection was based solely on judgement by the umpire.

The umpire's opnion is the final word.....but it is not the only one.

That is why we have announcers.

[kylejt]

Did anyone else, beside my son and I, hear what Renteria said to the PU after he was hit.

"I told you, I told you"

He told the PU he was going to get doinked. THAT'S why the pitcher was run. And THAT'S why Lou didn't go nuts.

[LMan]

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[mbyron]

At the risk of feeding the troll, I will say this:
Joe Morgan is indeed paid to express his opinion (and we know about those).

He was not merely expressing his opinion when he repeatedly attempted to get John Smoltz to go on record criticizing a MLB umpire.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Any idea why Lilly threw at Renteria?

On Friday, Soriano hit three homeruns against the Braves. On Saturday on the first pitch of the game to Soriano, he was hit in the shoulder, clearly it was as intentional as Lilly’s was to Renteria, but Hudson wasn’t ejected. Later in the game, Isturiz for the Cubs had a pitch thrown behind him, and Gallagher for the Cubs was hit. Again, no ejections.

Before Sunday’s game, no warnings were issued and nothing was addressed in the pre-game about retaliation. It seemed to me that Wolf figured this was going to happen and instead of doing something to prevent it said I’ll just wait for it to happen and then toss the guys. Pretty crappy way of handling it I think.

Then after he was hit, Renteria steals second on the next pitch, does a very late pop-up slide and delivers a forearm to the face of the Cubs Fontenot who was covering on the play and again, nothing was done. The Braves basically got four shots at Cubs players with no repercussions, while the Cubs retaliated once and got a player ejected.

[midtnblu]

Right on g,

I attended Fri and Sat games of this series.

Soriano went deep 3 times and not once did he "show up" the Braves.

Bush league crap by the Braves. Ridiculous "game management" by this umpiring crew. MLB needs to review this one, especially the forearm by Renteria. Plus, replays showed he was out at 2nd.

It was reported that Renteria was removed because of the HBP and X-Rays...but I'll bet Cox took him out of this one to prevent injury as this was the last series between these two teams this year.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Joe Morgan has proved, yet again, that he is a total idiot.

Hope Jimpiano see this post.

Regards,

I agree with Morgan 100%.

The crew and Wolf made many mistakes.

1. Did Hudson line his cap with aluminum foil on Sat. to keep HP ump from reading his mind? Is there anyone in the room that doesn't think Hudson threw at Sorianos head on purpose?

2. If Wolf 'knew it was coming' and 'was waiting for it' then why wasn't a pregame warning issued? Maybe he'd rather toss than prevent. and if he'd done his job and issued the pregame warning he probably would have prevented Rentaria's hand injury and Fontenot's busted nose. Which is the whole purpose of the umpires inserting themselves into this aspect of the game isn't it?

Obviously Lilly forgot to wear the foil. It's good to know Wolf has a career as a telepathic when the umpire gig goes away.

3. I wonder what Wolf says when he's not mic'ed? If you're going to screw the pooch at least keep your mouth shut.
Game management 101, for all you new umpires. Don't be making editorial remarks after a controversial and/or stupid call.

4. Forearm shivers to the nose are ok now? This crew needs to get on the same page. Even if it's the wrong page they all need to be on it.


Morgan and his partner saw the inconsistencies in this crews call and were right to point them out.

[jimpiano]

Careful.

Agreeing with Joe Morgan on this forum can result in being called a troll.

LOL

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yeah, they kept trying to get Smoltz to agree with them, but Smoltz thought Lilly was throwing at Renteria on purpose too. Smoltz said that the umpire did what he was supposed to do, and that normally the players would take care of it, but not in this case.

Steve,

You and I both know that Smoltz would rather have the umps stay out of this.
When asked if he'd ever been thrown out of a game under similar circumstances he told his story of a few years ago.
I'm sure you heard it.
He basically said if the umps would have stayed out of it the matter was settled, instead they inserted themselves and according to Smoltz things got much worse.
You know that Smoltz is smart enough not to directly criticize this crew or Wolf for the matter at hand and peeve them off, for obvious reasons.
He certainly made it perfectly clear where he stood on this matter.
I know you're perceptive enough to have caught his veiled criticism.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I agree with Morgan 100%.

The crew and Wolf made many mistakes.

1. Did Hudson line his cap with aluminum foil on Sat. to keep HP ump from reading his mind? Is there anyone in the room that doesn't think Hudson threw at Sorianos head on purpose?

2. If Wolf 'knew it was coming' and 'was waiting for it' then why wasn't a pregame warning issued? Maybe he'd rather toss than prevent. and if he'd done his job and issued the pregame warning he probably would have prevented Rentaria's hand injury and Fontenot's busted nose. Which is the whole purpose of the umpires inserting themselves into this aspect of the game isn't it?

Obviously Lilly forgot to wear the foil. It's good to know Wolf has a career as a telepathic when the umpire gig goes away.

3. I wonder what Wolf says when he's not mic'ed? If you're going to screw the pooch at least keep your mouth shut.
Game management 101, for all you new umpires. Don't be making editorial remarks after a controversial and/or stupid call.

4. Forearm shivers to the nose are ok now? This crew needs to get on the same page. Even if it's the wrong page they all need to be on it.


Morgan and his partner saw the inconsistencies in this crews call and were right to point them out.

1. Different plate umpire, different day, different situation entirely. What does what the umpire the day before did have to do with anything? Tim Tscheda must not have felt that Hudson intentionally hit Soriano the day before. So what?

2. Maybe the crew (which is headed by Tim Tscheda, not Jim Wolf) decided to let it blow over, and not create negative tension by issuing pre-game warnings. You know, like the Amazing Morgan said, letting the teams handle it.

If you look closely at the replay of Lilly, you can see him aim the ball purposefully at Renteria. He tracks the pitch with his eyes, and if you freeze the frame as Renteria is getting hit, Lilly looks well pleased with his efforts. Not only was it intentional, it was aimed toward his head, which is also taken into account when determining whether or not to run someone.

Renteria had told Wolf that he expected to get hit. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that it was intentional. Some times, you just have to umpire.

3. I wonder what you say during your games. WTF business of anyone's what Wolf says miked up or otherwise? I didn't see it as wrong or controversial. Lilly clearly hit Renteria on purpose, and Wolf kept Renteria from clobbering Lilly. That was his first order of business, to get Renteria away from Lilly. He then came back and ran Lilly. That was much better than running Lilly, and then letting Renteria kick the crap out of Lilly.

Lilly claimed he wasn't throwing at Renteria. Sure, we believe you...not.

4. I agree. Renteria should have been thrown out for this act of violence. Jim Joyce just looked the other way.

I didn't have a dog in this fight, so my input is unbiased, not the boo-hooings of disgruntled Cubbie fans. Y'all haven't stopped crying since 1984.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Steve,

You and I both know that Smoltz would rather have the umps stay out of this.
When asked if he'd ever been thrown out of a game under similar circumstances he told his story of a few years ago.
I'm sure you heard it.
He basically said if the umps would have stayed out of it the matter was settled, instead they inserted themselves and according to Smoltz things got much worse.
You know that Smoltz is smart enough not to directly criticize this crew or Wolf for the matter at hand and peeve them off, for obvious reasons.
He certainly made it perfectly clear where he stood on this matter.
I know you're perceptive enough to have caught his veiled criticism.

Smoltz indicated that the umpires should have stayed out of his situation. He also said that every situation is different, and he inferred that he felt Lilly deserved what he got, but that he himself did not deserve what happened in the late 90s. I'll bet if we ask Renteria, he would say that Lilly deserved to get run, as it was definitely premeditated.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Smoltz indicated that the umpires should have stayed out of his situation. He also said that every situation is different, and he inferred that he felt Lilly deserved what he got, but that he himself did not deserve what happened in the late 90s. I'll bet if we ask Renteria, he would say that Lilly deserved to get run, as it was definitely premeditated.

As was Hudson's pitch at Soriano's head on Saturday.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by gsf23

As was Hudson's pitch at Soriano's head on Saturday.

Probably it was. But it was a different umpire working the plate, not Jim Wolf. If Tim Tscheda did not rule it to be intentional, that doesn't be-front Wolf none at all (a little George Thorogood lingo there). It is, and always has been, a judgment call.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

1. Different plate umpire, different day, different situation entirely. What does what the umpire the day before did have to do with anything? Tim Tscheda must not have felt that Hudson intentionally hit Soriano the day before. So what?.

Same crew. They should have consistency on how they interpret these situations. If Tim didn't know Hudson's throw was intentional he should be busted back to LL. He knew it, he chose to let it go with a warning. That's why I say the crew needs to be on the same page.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

2. Maybe the crew (which is headed by Tim Tscheda, not Jim Wolf) decided to let it blow over, and not create negative tension by issuing pre-game warnings. You know, like the Amazing Morgan said, letting the teams handle it..

Then let them handle it.
Tim and Jim must not be talkin.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

If you look closely at the replay of Lilly, you can see him aim the ball purposefully at Renteria. He tracks the pitch with his eyes, and if you freeze the frame as Renteria is getting hit, Lilly looks well pleased with his efforts. Not only was it intentional, it was aimed toward his head, which is also taken into account when determining whether or not to run someone..

And what slo mo and freeze frame replay was Jim reviewing when he made the ejection?
Tim must have missed the head high fastball Hudson aimed at Soriano, or maybe he didn't have access to the same freeze frame replay.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Renteria had told Wolf that he expected to get hit. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that it was intentional. Some times, you just have to umpire..

1. The umpiring should have started at pregame
2. Was the rocket scientist on vacation the day before?
3. Are you saying Renteria is smarter than Wolf? Are you suggesting we all should take input from players prior to making our judgement calls?
If Soriano had warned Tim the day before should Tim have ruled differently?
How could Renteria know it was him they would go after, why not Jones?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

3. I wonder what you say during your games. WTF business of anyone's what Wolf says miked up or otherwise? I didn't see it as wrong or controversial. .

That's because you're 'BLUE' tinted glasses filter out all umpire screwups.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Lilly clearly hit Renteria on purpose, and Wolf kept Renteria from clobbering Lilly. That was his first order of business, to get Renteria away from Lilly. He then came back and ran Lilly. .

His first order of business was clearly to prevent the bean ball in the first place. By saying(while mic'ed) 'I knew it was coming' 'I was expecting it' was a stupid and moronic thing to say. If he knew it it was coming he should have issued a pregame warning.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

That was much better than running Lilly, and then letting Renteria kick the crap out of Lilly..

You're right, it was much better to let Renteria kick the crap out of Fontenot.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Lilly claimed he wasn't throwing at Renteria. Sure, we believe you...not..

Did you believe Hudson?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

4. I agree. Renteria should have been thrown out for this act of violence. Jim Joyce just looked the other way.

I didn't have a dog in this fight, so my input is unbiased, not the boo-hooings of disgruntled Cubbie fans. Y'all haven't stopped crying since 1984.

You have a dog in the fight, it's the umpires.