Babe Ruth Unreported substitute

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

If you had reason to believe he didn't have the ball or was stumbling over the entirety of the 20 foot 5-6 stride distance, I could conceive of your ruling coming into play - but not as a rule. Voluntary release is one of the things we can use to determine a catch ... but it is not the ONLY thing, and is not REQUIRED. Let me ask... F9 catches a routine fly, runs toward his dugout, ball still in glove, and trips over the pitcher's mound, dropping the ball upon impact. You putting everyone back on bases now? Of course not. You stated, "There is no such thing as "held it long enough" ", would the CF in my sitch not have held it long enough to be considered a catch.

Well, if the fielder is still in the process of gaining control over his body after contacting the ball (and why else would he be running with the ball?), then the play is still going on, I'm sorry to have to correct you, but a voluntary release is required. A voluntary release is one of the things we do use, not can use to determine a catch.

You're absurd analogy of F9 tripping over the pitcher's mound is the stupidest thing I've heard all week. I was speaking of the continuous nature of the play (as in immediately following contact with the ball), not a fielder running in 200 feet after the inning is over and the teams are changing sides. That would be ridiculous. Oh, and BTW, F9 is the RF, not the CF.

You tell me what is the difference between running 20 ft. with the ball, and hitting a wall and dropping the ball, and running 20 ft., falling down and dropping the ball. Both are during continuous action of the play, and both require (that's right require) a voluntary release, as well as a judgment that the fielder had the ball long enough. One without the other is not how the rule works.

Here is the exact wording of the rule:

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, if the fielder is still in the process of gaining control over his body after contacting the ball (and why else would he be running with the ball?), then the play is still going on, I'm sorry to have to correct you, but a voluntary release is required. A voluntary release is one of the things we do use, not can use to determine a catch.

You're absurd analogy of F9 tripping over the pitcher's mound is the stupidest thing I've heard all week. I was speaking of the continuous nature of the play (as in immediately following contact with the ball), not a fielder running in 200 feet after the inning is over and the teams are changing sides. That would be ridiculous. Oh, and BTW, F9 is the RF, not the CF.

You tell me what is the difference between running 20 ft. with the ball, and hitting a wall and dropping the ball, and running 20 ft., falling down and dropping the ball. Both are during continuous action of the play, and both require (that's right require) a voluntary release, as well as a judgment that the fielder had the ball long enough. One without the other is not how the rule works.

Here is the exact wording of the rule:

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

So then tripping over the mound DOES invalidate the catch because it dodn't meet the "and" portion.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

So then tripping over the mound DOES invalidate the catch because it dodn't meet the "and" portion.

I see by the smileys that you are joking here, but really. . .as I said, we are talking about continuous action on the play, immediately following contact with the ball. The mound analogy is patently absurd.