"I'm an umpire too!"

As one of those who works both sides of the fence, I am surprised any umpire who coaches would even think of coming out to question a judgment call.

Since the umpires we use in my son's league are from the same association I belong to, I introduce myself as one. During pregame, if the ump is new to our league, I do help out with the ground rules and local rules if they are not familiar. When they talk about no arguing judgment calls, I always tell them "you'll get no complaints from me."

There has been only one problem umpire. He came in with a chip on his shoulder and a holier than thou attitude and didn't want to play by our time limit rules. I had him two days later and he still had the same chip. I later found out he was a softball ump who was a fill in because they couldn't get anybody else. Luckily we don't have that problem this year.

[GarthB]

There are coaches who umpire and there are umpires who coach. Anybody who pulls this is a coach who umpires and should be granted the same consideration any Rat would get.

[justanotherblue]

I had a game with two former association members coaching it. Gave one a warning for arguing balls and strikes, gave the other one of those up yours coach, deer in the headlight looks for wanting to argue a no call, contact at the plate, hard slide, and his catcher dropped the ball. He wanted obs. simply because there was contact. Guess that's why he's a former member. They're just another rat, treat em that way, they're just trying to intimidate you, hoping that will get them a call in their favor.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Since the umpires we use in my son's league are from the same association I belong to, I introduce myself as one.

Why?

What's the point behind your doing so? It serves no real purpose that I can think of. This practice is fairly common in most sports. And also fairly common is the reaction of most sports officials when they hear that tired old song; they think that "this goober is just doing that because he thinks that maybe I'll give him the close ones". All that you're doing is nothing but a poorly disguised effort at intimidation, and most experienced officials will recognize that immediately.

If, as you say, being an umpire has no bearing as to how you comport yourself as a coach, then why bother mentioning it? Just coach.

[Toadman15241]

[QUOTE=BigGuy]As one of those who works both sides of the fence, I am surprised any umpire who coaches would even think of coming out to question a judgment call.
QUOTE]

Umps who coach normally know what they are doing. Thus, I have seen these individuals come out to argue a call and start out by saying "I need to wake up my team, so nothing against you but..." and then go off making a big show of it. I see no problem with this, and would not lose any respect for such an individual.

[JRutledge]

Coaches that try to play the "I am an umpire/official too" line, I just tune them out. That loses all credibility with me when I hear this. I have even said, "Not all umpires/officials are that good."

Peace

[blueump]

You could always respond with "Well, I'm a coach too, and I don't think I would ever argue that obvious of a call!"

[QUOTE=Toadman15241]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

As one of those who works both sides of the fence, I am surprised any umpire who coaches would even think of coming out to question a judgment call.
QUOTE]

Umps who coach normally know what they are doing. Thus, I have seen these individuals come out to argue a call and start out by saying "I need to wake up my team, so nothing against you but..." and then go off making a big show of it. I see no problem with this, and would not lose any respect for such an individual.

I have no problems with your scenario at all except the "big show" part. It sounds a bit melodramatic. The problem is now the players see their coach going off, even though it's an act, you wonder if just one of them is thinking, "doesn't this sound like a double standard?" As a coach and umpire, it's a very fine line to walk. I prefer to stay on this side.

[3appleshigh]

One of the best comebacks I ever heard was from a High ranking Official in the my Provincial umpire association. Up here we have levels, 1-2-3-4-5. This particular ump was a 5 (which means he has done an international assignment). I was a 3 on bases.

Anywho the coach from this team came out to argue, He was really upset to begin, but that changed quickly, and it was real short and sweet. The coach headed back no truble or anything. So after the game I asked my partner what he did, to learn for future reference. This was his story.

"Well the coach came out arguing the rule saying I was wrong and he was right, and that I could trust him because he was a level 3 umpire. So I said to him, you know how they give you a card for the year with your name on the front? He says yea, so I said, well flip it over on the back of that card is were you will find my name. (the back has the names of the 4 provincial umpire committe members). The coach took a quick retreat."

I still laugh at that story today. Wasn't very helpful for me but was very amusing.

[bisonpitcher]

I umpire at the HS level and I also coach a local Freshman/Sophomore HS summer team. I dont ever mention the fact that I am an umpire (although some of the guys know I am because we have called together in the past). I just dont think it gains any credibility to do so. I also will not come out to argue judgement calls (although I will tell them I thought they missed it if it was really bad). However I did do everything I could to get run last summer in a game: My team was on defense, 2 outs, R1 and R2 with a 2 run lead in the bottom of the 6th (7 inning game). Slow grounder to the F6, which he throws in our dugout. Umpires award R2 the plate, R1 third and the BR 2nd. No problem, we still had a one run lead and 2 outs. The OC comes out and talks to the PU. I cant hear what they are discussing, but they are pointing at second base and the PU starts nodding. Then the PU points at the runner on third (R1) and gives him the plate! 3 bases on the 1st throw by an infielder. I came out of the dugout on a dead sprint to the plate like George Brett after the pine tar HR. Both umpires were about 19 or 20 and seemed scared and inexperienced. I asked him how he came up with 3 bases for the runner and he said coach, its 1+1 and the runner had reached second when the ball went out of play. I told him "2 bases from time of pitch" that 1+1 wasnt in Fed Rules etc. He said thats what were going with. Then I told him that he needed to either read his rule book or go back to kiddie ball. He just kept saying 1+1 coach over and over. I could see I was getting nowhere and told him that his call was horse#### and that he had the call right and was a chicken#### for backing down when the OC came out. I am fully expecting the gate (I certainly would have run myself) but he just took it. I proceeded to use some other 4 letter words to describe his knowledge of the rules to no avail, and still he refused to eject me. Of course, the next batter flew out, and we lost in the bottom of the 7th by 1. However, I made it a point to tell my team that we had never lost because of a call and this game was no different. It was our fault for throwing it in the dugout in the first place, so no excuses.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bisonpitcher

I umpire at the HS level and I also coach a local Freshman/Sophomore HS summer team. I dont ever mention the fact that I am an umpire (although some of the guys know I am because we have called together in the past). I just dont think it gains any credibility to do so. I also will not come out to argue judgement calls (although I will tell them I thought they missed it if it was really bad). However I did do everything I could to get run last summer in a game: My team was on defense, 2 outs, R1 and R2 with a 2 run lead in the bottom of the 6th (7 inning game). Slow grounder to the F6, which he throws in our dugout. Umpires award R2 the plate, R1 third and the BR 2nd. No problem, we still had a one run lead and 2 outs. The OC comes out and talks to the PU. I cant hear what they are discussing, but they are pointing at second base and the PU starts nodding. Then the PU points at the runner on third (R1) and gives him the plate! 3 bases on the 1st throw by an infielder. I came out of the dugout on a dead sprint to the plate like George Brett after the pine tar HR. Both umpires were about 19 or 20 and seemed scared and inexperienced. I asked him how he came up with 3 bases for the runner and he said coach, its 1+1 and the runner had reached second when the ball went out of play. I told him "2 bases from time of pitch" that 1+1 wasnt in Fed Rules etc. He said thats what were going with. Then I told him that he needed to either read his rule book or go back to kiddie ball. He just kept saying 1+1 coach over and over. I could see I was getting nowhere and told him that his call was horse#### and that he had the call right and was a chicken#### for backing down when the OC came out. I am fully expecting the gate (I certainly would have run myself) but he just took it. I proceeded to use some other 4 letter words to describe his knowledge of the rules to no avail, and still he refused to eject me. Of course, the next batter flew out, and we lost in the bottom of the 7th by 1. However, I made it a point to tell my team that we had never lost because of a call and this game was no different. It was our fault for throwing it in the dugout in the first place, so no excuses.

Being an umpire, why didn't you just stay calm and protest?

[bisonpitcher]

Only way to protest was to get league commissioner involved which was not worth the trouble for a regular season summer league game. After seeing i was getting nowhere being calm, I decided that getting run would not only get my point across but fire my guys up. Like I said, I fully expected to get run, he just wouldnt pull the trigger. Also, my language, although foul, was not where fans or players could hear.

[Cub42]

First of all, When a coach comes out to discuss a play, and he starts with a comment like that, he is trying to intimidate you and take the focus off of the play. Who cares what he claims to be. He is a coach, and you are the umpire. You are in charge here, not him. Make sure you control the situation, and keep the discussion on the play in question and nothing else. Your in charge, be in charge.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I have been known to say, "and. . .?" or "so. . .?" when told by a coach that he umpires too. That doesn't impress me very much. Unless it is Doug Harvey or someone like that. I'd still run them too, though.

[RPatrino]

I was an umpire who coached my son's teams during the last two years he played. To make matters worse, I was also the UIC/President of our umpire association. I could not hide who I was, so I hid on the bench. I attended the plate meeting, but during the game I sat on the bench keeping the score book and supervising substitutions. Any discussions with the umpires was done by my assistant coach, who had clear instructions to be respectful and non-confrontational. I would have gladly not been a coach, but there were no candidates to coach this team and that would have left 15 or so young men with no team to play on.

I only had one problem umpire and that was dealt with off the field.