Fair or Foul?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I didn't see the MLB instances ... by why was anyone still running if Bruce Froemming yelled FOUL!?

R2 ran on contact. When Bruce made the initial foul call, R2 stopped and headed back to second. Left fielder kept playing the ball and threw R2 out before he made it back to second. By then, Bruce had changed his call.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I can understand the ejection part for the botched call, but not the R12. Were they playing in Toronto or Montreal? Only in Canada, right.

MLB stood behind Bruce. How can that be considered a botched call?

Now, then, have you never heard of a foul call being changed to a home run?

[PeteBooth]

As Garth pointed out a FOUL can be changed to FAIR, but in general when an umpire calls FOUL, it's FOUL.

In your example: what did F8 do when he heard FOUL?. Perhaps he stopped chasing after the ball or didn't even bother making a play to begin with after he heard FOUL which is the primary reason the BR made it second.

If ALL the players reacted as if the ball were indeed fair, then you can change the call, but as mentioned the general rule of thumb is when ONE umpire calls FOUL we all call FOUL and live with it. It's not the end of the world.

Pete Booth

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

As Garth pointed out a FOUL can be changed to FAIR, but in general when an umpire calls FOUL, it's FOUL.

Whether it can be changed or should be changed are two different things.
If you're not Bruce F I'd suggest sticking with the philosophy of once foul always foul.
I'll even take bets that Bruce F will never reverse another foul call to fair(not counting HRs)

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Whether it can be changed or should be changed are two different things.
If you're not Bruce F I'd suggest sticking with the philosophy of once foul always foul.

This is not an academic argument. A foul call can and in certain circumstances should be changed. Again, have you never seen a foul call changed to home run? It happens. Sometimes it happens during the AL play-offs.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by GarthB

This is not an academic argument. A foul call can and in certain circumstances should be changed. Again, have you never seen a foul call changed to home run? It happens. Sometimes it happens during the AL play-offs.

Since the OP was not a HR issue, the reference to Bruce F was not a HR issue and since my last post ended with the not counting HRs disclaimer it's a safe bet that I wasn't speaking to the issue of foul or HR.
Again I say, there is a difference between CAN and SHOULD.
Bruce proved that you CAN and at the same time showed that you SHOULD NOT.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Again, have you never seen a foul call changed to home run? It happens. Sometimes it happens during the AL play-offs.

Yes, but that's one form of dead-ball to another. That's easier to 'fix' than going from dead to live.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by GarthB

R2 ran on contact. When Bruce made the initial foul call, R2 stopped and headed back to second. Left fielder kept playing the ball and threw R2 out before he made it back to second. By then, Bruce had changed his call.

Maybe I'm just being thick... but it seems to me that this example should not be held up to prove that foul balls can become fair, but rather a perfectly good reason why they should not. That they left that out on the board just tells me that even the best of us screw up royally. What a horrible decision.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Don and Lman:

As I thought I made clear in my first post in this thread, I haved been addressing Mcrowder and his comment: "but a balled called FOUL where the call is heard is foul. Unringable bell." not the OP situation.

But don't you see that the unringing of this bell was WRONG. Surely we should not use this as an example to teach by.