Fair? or foul

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Ok, so i was doing 9-10 LL again, im plate umpire. Batter bunts ball down first...rolls in foul terrirory, I Yell "Foul" and right when i do that the ball rolls back in fair and F3 picks ball up in fair territory. Fair or foul?

[nickrego]

I don't have the latest LL rule books, but most everywhere else, you have a Foul Ball.

You can understand why...Player's, particularly the batter/runner(s), hears the umpire yell "Foul", so they give up and start to return. Then the Defense makes a successful play on them. Not really fair to the Offense. It works the same in reverse.

If you call a batted ball "Foul", stick with it. Eat it. Do whatever you have to do, but don't change it.

Unless...You receive additional information from your partner that the ball was not foul, resulting in a Home Run. That is the ONLY foul call we change, because it had no effect on the outcome based on the players reaction to your foul call.

And next time, wait for the ball to SETTLE in foul territory, or come in contact with something that is not part of the field. My son has the same problem with calling foul balls too soon. A late foul call hurts nothing. But an early foul call...Well, you know.

[SAump]

The ball was fair. You should know this. The ball was dead because you killed it by yelling foul. Now you must live on and learn to condition yourself to never do this again. Find the quiz on fair/foul ball on the internet and take it. Learn and read everything about the fair/foul ball zingers that give everyone trouble around the batter's box, plate and bases. Hint: Where the ball touches before and after the bases or is first touched by the defense.

I suggest you meet with your partner and review the whole situation. Local rules may allow both coaches to conference to accept the results of the play, if uninterrupted, as the actual Fair or FOUL Ball. Choices: all runners advance, a SAC bunt and runner(s) advance, a foul ball strike or a NO pitch do-over replay. Be quick and decisive and sell the call.

Will you allow the coaches to accept the results of the conference? One coach may jump all up and down over your wagon because his baserunners or defense stopped in the middle of play. He may request a do-over or NOT as a result of some imaginary unfair advantage. He has the upper hand because you made a mistake. Keep your fingers crossed that this decision doesn't have an impact on the results of the game.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Okay, now that that post is over.....it is a foul. You called it foul, you have to live with it. There are no do-overs on such a play. The offense may get mad, the defense may get mad. It depends on who your bad call happened to screw over. Never call a batted ball foul when it is near the foul line until it either stops rolling or is touched by a fielder in foul ground. That is why the fielders try to touch it while it's foul before it hits a rock or something, or spins back into fair territory. They know by touching it that it will be a foul ball.

[aceholleran]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Ok, so i was doing 9-10 LL again, im plate umpire. Batter bunts ball down first...rolls in foul terrirory, I Yell "Foul" and right when i do that the ball rolls back in fair and F3 picks ball up in fair territory. Fair or foul?

I'm not going to blast you for this. I called a foul ball on one that hit the plate mannnnny years ago. I stayed with my call, so well that no one argued.

But now you know, Keystoner. Don't kill a play before its time.

I'll bet you never make this error again. Sometimes that's what it takes to learn.

You're one step further toward eliminating gross errors, grasshopper.

Ace

[ctblu40]

This ball is foul... from your original post, I gather that you knew you made a mistake calling it too early.

I had one similar when I was just starting out:
R1 and R2, no outs. BR attempts a bunt down the first baseline. He lays it down (great attempt), and the ball is rolling up the line and is headed toward foul ground with F1, F2, and F3 huddled around it and coach screaming "Let it go foul, let it go foul!" For some reason, F1 lets it roll and quickly picks it up when it's on the line! I yelled, "FOUL!" I immediately cursed my poor call under my breath! I must've sold it pretty well because no argument was made. To this day I don't know why I made that call!

I learned from that mistake, and I'm sure you'll learn from yours.

[rookieblue]

"Hi, my name is Bob, and I'm a rookie umpire." My only defense (and it ain't much of one) is the ball was grounded fairly sharply towards the third base dugout fence. Not close at all, thinks I. Of course, the moment my majestic "FOUL" echoed across the diamond, the ball hit a thick tuft of grass, executed a crisp 90-degree right turn - and continued into fair territory.

My expression, a combination of surprise at events and disgust at myself, earned the pity - and the laughter - of both coaches. "Foul" it was called, so "foul" it was. I got off easy - early in a scoreless game, no runners on base, but the lesson took nonetheless.

Bob James

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Ok, so i was doing 9-10 LL again, im plate umpire. Batter bunts ball down first...rolls in foul terrirory, I Yell "Foul" and right when i do that the ball rolls back in fair and F3 picks ball up in fair territory. Fair or foul?

Your question is not clear. Are you asking should it have been ruled fair or foul? Fair.

Are you asking if it was fair or foul after you called it foul? Foul.

Are you asking if you screwed the pooch? Yup.

Are you asking for a better mechanic? Wait until the ball comes to rest in foul territory or strikes something in foul territory before calling it foul.

[SAump]

FED rules should be consistent about the application. My POV is an UMP error on a SAC Bunt is closer to home than an error on a SAC FLY on a Foul Ball and just as important. Perhaps a do-over situation may provide for more balance than two strikes interfering with the direction of the offense on the subsequent play. You never know when the FED officials may change the play to allow a do-over. Just a matter of time until they bow to the yearly demands of their coaches. Hey coaches, my bad, but why can't you just bunt over again?

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Your question is not clear. Are you asking should it have been ruled fair or foul? Fair.

Are you asking if it was fair or foul after you called it foul? Foul.

Are you asking if you screwed the pooch? Yup.

Are you asking for a better mechanic? Wait until the ball comes to rest in foul territory or strikes something in foul territory before calling it foul.

Not quite. ONLY if the ball touches, or is touched, by something or someone NOT part of the field. If the ball hits a stone or backspins into fair territory it's fair. If a player touches the ball in foul territory, it's foul.

Bob

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Not quite. ONLY if the ball touches, or is touched, by something or someone NOT part of the field. If the ball hits a stone or backspins into fair territory it's fair. If a player touches the ball in foul territory, it's foul.

Bob

My bad. I made the mistake of assuming some knowlege. Do you think I need to add blades of grass, grains of sand, clods of dirts and fallen leaves to your mention of a stone?

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by GarthB

My bad. I made the mistake of assuming some knowlege. Do you think I need to add blades of grass, grains of sand, clods of dirts and fallen leaves to your mention of a stone?

Yes. Because you made a broad statement, without any qualifications. There are people on these forums who have no knowledge of the rules, and will accept what they read here.

And remember what happens when you ***/u/me.

Bob

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Yes. Because you made a broad statement, without any qualifications. There are people on these forums who have no knowledge of the rules, and will accept what they read here.

And remember what happens when you ***/u/me.

Bob

I agree. And, after re-reading my post, I hope you didn't take it as a personal attack. It was meant as an acknowlegement of my own FU.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Ok, so i was doing 9-10 LL again, im plate umpire. Batter bunts ball down first...rolls in foul terrirory, I Yell "Foul" and right when i do that the ball rolls back in fair and F3 picks ball up in fair territory. Fair or foul?

Step one - continue posting here when you have questions. We'll help you to the best of our abilities.

Step two - stop posting "answers" here until you have a MUCH firmer grasp of the rules. I don't mean offense here, but a couple of your answers here were WAY off recently (and one included an admonition of the "stupid" umpire who made the RIGHT call). Get to where you know what you're talking about - and THEN you can help out those that need it. I truly mean this as advice, and not to offend, although I suspect it may offend anyway.

As to this scenario, 3 things. One - A call of FOUL cannot be unrung - it is foul. Eat your crow and apologize for your mistake, but you HAVE to live with the call. Two - SLOW DOWN. You should never call a ball foul until it is actually foul. A ball rolling in or bounding over foul territory is not a foul ball until hit hits something, stops, or passes 1st or 3rd. Three - SLOW DOWN. Slowing down is advice rule number A-1 for all new umpires. It will bail you out of a huge number of situations and prevent a huge number of mistakes. 75% of umpire mistakes can be traced back to going to quickly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Step one - continue posting here when you have questions. We'll help you to the best of our abilities.

Step two - stop posting "answers" here until you have a MUCH firmer grasp of the rules. I don't mean offense here, but a couple of your answers here were WAY off recently (and one included an admonition of the "stupid" umpire who made the RIGHT call). Get to where you know what you're talking about - and THEN you can help out those that need it. I truly mean this as advice, and not to offend, although I suspect it may offend anyway.

As to this scenario, 3 things. One - A call of FOUL cannot be unrung - it is foul. Eat your crow and apologize for your mistake, but you HAVE to live with the call. Two - SLOW DOWN. You should never call a ball foul until it is actually foul. A ball rolling in or bounding over foul territory is not a foul ball until hit hits something, stops, or passes 1st or 3rd. Three - SLOW DOWN. Slowing down is advice rule number A-1 for all new umpires. It will bail you out of a huge number of situations and prevent a huge number of mistakes. 75% of umpire mistakes can be traced back to going to quickly.

Why even bother calling it foul in the first place? Too many people feel they have to call it SOMETHING. On a foul ball, 90% of the time, I'm merely putting a ball in the catcher's hand.