The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 12:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 362
Fair? or foul

Ok, so i was doing 9-10 LL again, im plate umpire. Batter bunts ball down first...rolls in foul terrirory, I Yell "Foul" and right when i do that the ball rolls back in fair and F3 picks ball up in fair territory. Fair or foul?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 01:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 477
Send a message via AIM to nickrego
I don't have the latest LL rule books, but most everywhere else, you have a Foul Ball.

You can understand why...Player's, particularly the batter/runner(s), hears the umpire yell "Foul", so they give up and start to return. Then the Defense makes a successful play on them. Not really fair to the Offense. It works the same in reverse.

If you call a batted ball "Foul", stick with it. Eat it. Do whatever you have to do, but don't change it.

Unless...You receive additional information from your partner that the ball was not foul, resulting in a Home Run. That is the ONLY foul call we change, because it had no effect on the outcome based on the players reaction to your foul call.

And next time, wait for the ball to SETTLE in foul territory, or come in contact with something that is not part of the field. My son has the same problem with calling foul balls too soon. A late foul call hurts nothing. But an early foul call...Well, you know.
__________________
Have Great Games !

Nick
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 02:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,577
Fair or Foul Mouth

The ball was fair. You should know this. The ball was dead because you killed it by yelling foul. Now you must live on and learn to condition yourself to never do this again. Find the quiz on fair/foul ball on the internet and take it. Learn and read everything about the fair/foul ball zingers that give everyone trouble around the batter's box, plate and bases. Hint: Where the ball touches before and after the bases or is first touched by the defense.

I suggest you meet with your partner and review the whole situation. Local rules may allow both coaches to conference to accept the results of the play, if uninterrupted, as the actual Fair or FOUL Ball. Choices: all runners advance, a SAC bunt and runner(s) advance, a foul ball strike or a NO pitch do-over replay. Be quick and decisive and sell the call.

Will you allow the coaches to accept the results of the conference? One coach may jump all up and down over your wagon because his baserunners or defense stopped in the middle of play. He may request a do-over or NOT as a result of some imaginary unfair advantage. He has the upper hand because you made a mistake. Keep your fingers crossed that this decision doesn't have an impact on the results of the game.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 04:51am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 6,724
Okay, now that that post is over.....it is a foul. You called it foul, you have to live with it. There are no do-overs on such a play. The offense may get mad, the defense may get mad. It depends on who your bad call happened to screw over. Never call a batted ball foul when it is near the foul line until it either stops rolling or is touched by a fielder in foul ground. That is why the fielders try to touch it while it's foul before it hits a rock or something, or spins back into fair territory. They know by touching it that it will be a foul ball.
__________________
Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 05:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 323
Send a message via AIM to aceholleran
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan
Ok, so i was doing 9-10 LL again, im plate umpire. Batter bunts ball down first...rolls in foul terrirory, I Yell "Foul" and right when i do that the ball rolls back in fair and F3 picks ball up in fair territory. Fair or foul?
I'm not going to blast you for this. I called a foul ball on one that hit the plate mannnnny years ago. I stayed with my call, so well that no one argued.

But now you know, Keystoner. Don't kill a play before its time.

I'll bet you never make this error again. Sometimes that's what it takes to learn.

You're one step further toward eliminating gross errors, grasshopper.

Ace
__________________
There is no such thing as idiot-proof, only idiot-resistant.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 07:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 505
I had one similar when I started out...

This ball is foul... from your original post, I gather that you knew you made a mistake calling it too early.

I had one similar when I was just starting out:
R1 and R2, no outs. BR attempts a bunt down the first baseline. He lays it down (great attempt), and the ball is rolling up the line and is headed toward foul ground with F1, F2, and F3 huddled around it and coach screaming "Let it go foul, let it go foul!" For some reason, F1 lets it roll and quickly picks it up when it's on the line! I yelled, "FOUL!" I immediately cursed my poor call under my breath! I must've sold it pretty well because no argument was made. To this day I don't know why I made that call!

I learned from that mistake, and I'm sure you'll learn from yours.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 08:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Old Dominion
Posts: 82
"Hi, my name is Bob, and I'm a rookie umpire." My only defense (and it ain't much of one) is the ball was grounded fairly sharply towards the third base dugout fence. Not close at all, thinks I. Of course, the moment my majestic "FOUL" echoed across the diamond, the ball hit a thick tuft of grass, executed a crisp 90-degree right turn - and continued into fair territory.

My expression, a combination of surprise at events and disgust at myself, earned the pity - and the laughter - of both coaches. "Foul" it was called, so "foul" it was. I got off easy - early in a scoreless game, no runners on base, but the lesson took nonetheless.

Bob James
__________________
"...a humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." - Ps li

"The prompt and correct judgements of the honorable umpire elicited applause from the members of both clubs, and their thanks are tendered to him for the gentlemanly manner in which he acquitted himself of that onerous duty." - Niagara Indexensis, May 20th 1872
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 11:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan
Ok, so i was doing 9-10 LL again, im plate umpire. Batter bunts ball down first...rolls in foul terrirory, I Yell "Foul" and right when i do that the ball rolls back in fair and F3 picks ball up in fair territory. Fair or foul?
Your question is not clear. Are you asking should it have been ruled fair or foul? Fair.

Are you asking if it was fair or foul after you called it foul? Foul.

Are you asking if you screwed the pooch? Yup.

Are you asking for a better mechanic? Wait until the ball comes to rest in foul territory or strikes something in foul territory before calling it foul.
__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 12:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,577
Wink My Bad Small Ball Foul Call

FED rules should be consistent about the application. My POV is an UMP error on a SAC Bunt is closer to home than an error on a SAC FLY on a Foul Ball and just as important. Perhaps a do-over situation may provide for more balance than two strikes interfering with the direction of the offense on the subsequent play. You never know when the FED officials may change the play to allow a do-over. Just a matter of time until they bow to the yearly demands of their coaches. Hey coaches, my bad, but why can't you just bunt over again?

Last edited by SAump; Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 12:07pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 12:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Your question is not clear. Are you asking should it have been ruled fair or foul? Fair.

Are you asking if it was fair or foul after you called it foul? Foul.

Are you asking if you screwed the pooch? Yup.

Are you asking for a better mechanic? Wait until the ball comes to rest in foul territory or strikes something in foul territory before calling it foul.
Not quite. ONLY if the ball touches, or is touched, by something or someone NOT part of the field. If the ball hits a stone or backspins into fair territory it's fair. If a player touches the ball in foul territory, it's foul.

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 12:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluezebra
Not quite. ONLY if the ball touches, or is touched, by something or someone NOT part of the field. If the ball hits a stone or backspins into fair territory it's fair. If a player touches the ball in foul territory, it's foul.

Bob
My bad. I made the mistake of assuming some knowlege. Do you think I need to add blades of grass, grains of sand, clods of dirts and fallen leaves to your mention of a stone?
__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 12:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
My bad. I made the mistake of assuming some knowlege. Do you think I need to add blades of grass, grains of sand, clods of dirts and fallen leaves to your mention of a stone?
Yes. Because you made a broad statement, without any qualifications. There are people on these forums who have no knowledge of the rules, and will accept what they read here.

And remember what happens when you ***/u/me.

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 12:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluezebra
Yes. Because you made a broad statement, without any qualifications. There are people on these forums who have no knowledge of the rules, and will accept what they read here.

And remember what happens when you ***/u/me.

Bob
I agree. And, after re-reading my post, I hope you didn't take it as a personal attack. It was meant as an acknowlegement of my own FU.
__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 02:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Elm, TX (NW Dallas)
Posts: 4,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan
Ok, so i was doing 9-10 LL again, im plate umpire. Batter bunts ball down first...rolls in foul terrirory, I Yell "Foul" and right when i do that the ball rolls back in fair and F3 picks ball up in fair territory. Fair or foul?
Step one - continue posting here when you have questions. We'll help you to the best of our abilities.

Step two - stop posting "answers" here until you have a MUCH firmer grasp of the rules. I don't mean offense here, but a couple of your answers here were WAY off recently (and one included an admonition of the "stupid" umpire who made the RIGHT call). Get to where you know what you're talking about - and THEN you can help out those that need it. I truly mean this as advice, and not to offend, although I suspect it may offend anyway.

As to this scenario, 3 things. One - A call of FOUL cannot be unrung - it is foul. Eat your crow and apologize for your mistake, but you HAVE to live with the call. Two - SLOW DOWN. You should never call a ball foul until it is actually foul. A ball rolling in or bounding over foul territory is not a foul ball until hit hits something, stops, or passes 1st or 3rd. Three - SLOW DOWN. Slowing down is advice rule number A-1 for all new umpires. It will bail you out of a huge number of situations and prevent a huge number of mistakes. 75% of umpire mistakes can be traced back to going to quickly.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 08, 2006, 02:23pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
Step one - continue posting here when you have questions. We'll help you to the best of our abilities.

Step two - stop posting "answers" here until you have a MUCH firmer grasp of the rules. I don't mean offense here, but a couple of your answers here were WAY off recently (and one included an admonition of the "stupid" umpire who made the RIGHT call). Get to where you know what you're talking about - and THEN you can help out those that need it. I truly mean this as advice, and not to offend, although I suspect it may offend anyway.

As to this scenario, 3 things. One - A call of FOUL cannot be unrung - it is foul. Eat your crow and apologize for your mistake, but you HAVE to live with the call. Two - SLOW DOWN. You should never call a ball foul until it is actually foul. A ball rolling in or bounding over foul territory is not a foul ball until hit hits something, stops, or passes 1st or 3rd. Three - SLOW DOWN. Slowing down is advice rule number A-1 for all new umpires. It will bail you out of a huge number of situations and prevent a huge number of mistakes. 75% of umpire mistakes can be traced back to going to quickly.
Why even bother calling it foul in the first place? Too many people feel they have to call it SOMETHING. On a foul ball, 90% of the time, I'm merely putting a ball in the catcher's hand.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fair or foul? mattmets Baseball 16 Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:47am
Fair or Foul 12UParent Softball 2 Thu Oct 06, 2005 06:36am
Fair or Foul Gre144 Baseball 18 Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:20am
Fair or Foul? drvestal Baseball 11 Sat Jun 08, 2002 03:30am
FED Foul to Fair umpyre007 Baseball 4 Wed Mar 07, 2001 09:54pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1