When does a slide begin?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Who says you cannot have MC and a slide? The two things are not mutually exclusive.

Peace

That is the whole point. Not one person said anything about a MC and a slide at the time you posted this. You definitely can have MC and a slide, it was just never mentioned. The OP was a Pete Rose style dive, its only purpose to knock down the catcher and dislodge the ball. The word slide should not have been used by Don in describing the play. Each poster thereafter realized this, and did not refer to it as a slide.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I got you now. What your saying is it's perfectly legal for a runner who knows he is going to be out, say at third, plow over F5. Then since the play continues, he can go on in and plow into F2 to score the run. I guess if there are two outs, tie ball game and bottom of the last inning, malicious contact is a good play. That rule really works well the way you explained it. The only modification I see is ejection.

I see your point, but I don't know of any rule that would allow us to kill the play due to MC alone.

Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I got you now. What your saying is it's perfectly legal for a runner who knows he is going to be out, say at third, plow over F5. Then since the play continues, he can go on in and plow into F2 to score the run. I guess if there are two outs, tie ball game and bottom of the last inning, malicious contact is a good play. That rule really works well the way you explained it. The only modification I see is ejection.

I expect, that in the BIGS, if a runner who had just plowed into F5 to make him drop the ball, jumps up and runs home to try to score he would be met by a really pissed off catcher who has lost all interest in the ball and is ready to fight.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I got you now. What your [sic] saying is it's perfectly legal for a runner who knows he is going to be out, say at third, plow over F5. Then since the play continues, he can go on in and plow into F2 to score the run. I guess if there are two outs, tie ball game and bottom of the last inning, malicious contact is a good play. That rule really works well the way you explained it. The only modification I see is ejection.

Exactly. Some leagues carry a next game suspension for ejections, similar to HS, so the culprit doesn't really get off Scot free.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

That is the whole point. Not one person said anything about a MC and a slide at the time you posted this. You definitely can have MC and a slide, it was just never mentioned. The OP was a Pete Rose style dive, its only purpose to knock down the catcher and dislodge the ball. The word slide should not have been used by Don in describing the play. Each poster thereafter realized this, and did not refer to it as a slide.

You really need to stop reading into what people say. I thought it was an important point to make. I did not make the comments based on what others said or did not say. That is not how I roll.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You really need to stop reading into what people say. I thought it was an important point to make. I did not make the comments based on what others said or did not say. That is not how I roll.

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Did anyone say that? This instance, however, clearly was not a slide and therefore had no chance of not being MC.

Maybe you could make that more clear then, since it appeared someone else besides me that you inferred there was a slide involved.

Nobody said there couldn't be MC and a slide either. I read into what people say because words mean things. If I ever stop reading into what people say, the subtle subtexts will all be lost. Straight out of Compton.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Maybe you could make that more clear then, since it appeared someone else besides me that you inferred there was a slide involved.

Nobody said there couldn't be MC and a slide either. I read into what people say because words mean things. If I ever stop reading into what people say, the subtle subtexts will all be lost. Straight out of Compton.

If you did not like the way I made my statement, why did you respond? I do not recall that I asked you anything.

I guess one of these days you will figure it out.

Peace

After reading all of the posts I've come to form some thoughts about the situation.

Regarding when does the slide begin - given that a legal slide feet first, according to 2-32-1 requires at least one leg and one buttock in contact with the ground. Logic says that the slide actually would begin on a head first as soon as at least one arm and part of the torso contacted the ground.

Since this is not the case, what we have is a runner diving into a catcher who has the ball and is attempting to make a play. From this you have several issues.

* This is not a slide, but a dive.
* It became a dive when contact was established with F2 while still being airborne.
* The runner does not attempt to avoid contact with the catcher.
* The runner turns a shoulder into the catcher, also showing no intent to actually "slide"

As soon as the runner turned a shoulder, it went from intent to slide into intent to knock ball from F2's position.

Depending on how you want to interpret slide/non-slide, you have to invoke either 8-4-2b or 8-4-2c, with 8-4-2b carrying the automatic interference. In either case the runner is out.

Regarding MC, based on the thread, one could logically think MC occurred. It's still an individual judgment, and I would probably rule that way. It's still one of those HTBT to give a definitive ruling. Obviously PU did not think so immediately but much after the fact, and only after confrontation with the coach, although I don't agree wioth changing the call for that reason. You either call it or you don't, but not because the coach decides to get in you face. Kind of like punishing a kid for stealing a cookie from the cookie jar an hour after the fact.

[mcrowder]

No, bigguy - a headfirst "slide" is not a slide at all. Your assertion that there is some point where a headfirst dive becomes a slide is simply wrong in all levels except MLB. It's just not a slide ... so the slide NEVER begins.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

No, bigguy - a headfirst "slide" is not a slide at all. Your assertion that there is some point where a headfirst dive becomes a slide is simply wrong in all levels except MLB. It's just not a slide ... so the slide NEVER begins.

Why isn't a headfirst slide a slide? You can slide head first under PONY baseball rules, and Little League Juniors, Seniors, and Big League levels as well. The only two instances where headfirst slides are illegal that I can think of are LL Majors and below, and under FED rules. It's not just for MLB.

What you can't do is dive into the catcher, but sliding on the ground headfirst is normally allowed.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The only two instances where headfirst slides are illegal that I can think of are LL Majors and below, and under FED rules.

Do you have a rule number for this???

I'm quite sure you can slide head first in FED ball.

[blueump]

In fact, Fed rule 2-32-1 clearly states that:

"a legal slide can be either feet first or head first."

Looks legal to me!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by blueump

In fact, Fed rule 2-32-1 clearly states that:

"a legal slide can be either feet first or head first."

Looks legal to me!

You are right. My mistake. So I can only think of one instance where head first slides are illegal!