When does a slide begin?

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My comment stands. When a runner starts a slide has nothing to do with if there is MC on a play. If the runner plowed into a fielder, when the slide starts is not going to change the call. You either have MC or you do not.

Peace

Maybe it's depends on your definition of 'plow'

If a runner is executing a legal slide what situation can you come up with where MC is a proper call?
Not saying it can't happen, just can't think of the scenario

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Maybe it's depends on your definition of 'plow'

If a runner is executing a legal slide what situation can you come up with where MC is a proper call?
Not saying it can't happen, just can't think of the scenario

Consider a slide that is legal ... until runner brings his foot up and kicks at a glove. Legal right up until the second it turned into MC.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Take a foot first slide into a home plate that is completely blocked by a catcher. In a) the runner starts a slide early enough that he is completely on the ground before contacting the catcher and in b) the slide is started late enough that the runner contacts the catcher while still completely in the air, cleats first.

One of these is MC and one is a legal slide and it is entirely due to when the slide started.

You are coming at this from the wrong point of view in my opinion. All contact is not considered illegal or malicious as it relates to calling the game. The OP says basically that the runner was in the process of a slide but ran over the fielder. So at the time of contact there was no slide. Also all slides are not legal. If you come up spikes high, that is not a legal slide. So when it starts is not the issue. If you run into a fielder without actually sliding, then you can easily have MC. Do not make this more complicated than it already is. It is really not that hard.

Peace

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you have not fit all the requirements of a slide (at the moment of contact), it is kind of hard to have a legal slide at this point do you think?

Peace

I'm not suggesting that the sitch in the OP was a legal slide.
I was asking in what scenario could you have MC on a runner while executing a legal slide.
The question is base on your earlier post:
"Who says you cannot have MC and a slide? The two things are not mutually exclusive."

If your comment did not assume "legal" slide then I understand.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Consider a slide that is legal ... until runner brings his foot up and kicks at a glove. Legal right up until the second it turned into MC.

I don't see that as automatic MC. It could be just an illegal slide. And at any rate it wasn't ever a legal slide because it wasn't all of the way through.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are coming at this from the wrong point of view in my opinion. All contact is not considered illegal or malicious as it relates to calling the game. The OP says basically that the runner was in the process of a slide but ran over the fielder. So at the time of contact there was no slide. Also all slides are not legal. If you come up spikes high, that is not a legal slide. So when it starts is not the issue. If you run into a fielder without actually sliding, then you can easily have MC. Do not make this more complicated than it already is. It is really not that hard.

Peace

Frankly, I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me. I'm saying that if a slide hasn't started you can have MC. If a slide is illegal, you can have MC. MC cannot occur during a legal slide.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I don't see that as automatic MC. It could be just an illegal slide. And at any rate it wasn't ever a legal slide because it wasn't all of the way through.

Could be - but he was trying to envision a legal slide that COULD become MC - this one could.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are coming at this from the wrong point of view in my opinion. All contact is not considered illegal or malicious as it relates to calling the game. The OP says basically that the runner was in the process of a slide but ran over the fielder. So at the time of contact there was no slide. Also all slides are not legal. If you come up spikes high, that is not a legal slide. So when it starts is not the issue. If you run into a fielder without actually sliding, then you can easily have MC. Do not make this more complicated than it already is. It is really not that hard.

Peace

In my opinion, if gravity had pulled R1 down a few more inches and his buttons were scraping dirt I would have had a legal slide regardless of the consequence of the contact.
In this case R1 was about 1 second or 5 inches from legal

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I'm not suggesting that the sitch in the OP was a legal slide.
I was asking in what scenario could you have MC on a runner while executing a legal slide.
The question is base on your earlier post:
"Who says you cannot have MC and a slide? The two things are not mutually exclusive."

If your comment did not assume "legal" slide then I understand.

Your post was not suggestive of a legal slide. He threw a shoulder into the catcher. That does not sound like a legal slide to me. Usually a slide means you are on the ground. My comments also were not about what a legal slide is or not. My point is if there is contact like you suggested, what does the start of the slide have to do with the call on the field?

Peace

[DG]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I asked my P after the game why he didn't call MC right away. He said his first instinct was to keep the kid in the game because he didn't think R1 intended to hit F2. According to my P F2 leaned more into the base line after R1 committed to slide. He was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. He changed his mind when the HC complained and didn't give him the chance to explain he was saving R1 from ejection.

Not saying it was right, just tellin ya what my Ps explanation was.

Damn the torpedoes, my first instinct is to toss a malicious contactor, and then take on anyone who wants to argue about it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Frankly, I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me. I'm saying that if a slide hasn't started you can have MC. If a slide is illegal, you can have MC. MC cannot occur during a legal slide.

I did not even use the term "disagree" when talking about your post. I also did not debate the issue of the legality of the slide. I simply said if you have a slide you can have MC. The OP stated as if because a slide started, all bets are off. And even if you have a legal slide, it does not preclude you from committing MC. The MC might not be associated with the slide at all. Trust me on this one. I have called MC when a legal slide was committed. But that was not the situation in this OP.

Peace

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I asked my P after the game why he didn't call MC right away. He said his first instinct was to keep the kid in the game because he didn't think R1 intended to hit F2. According to my P F2 leaned more into the base line after R1 committed to slide. He was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. He changed his mind when the HC complained and didn't give him the chance to explain he was saving R1 from ejection.

Not saying it was right, just tellin ya what my Ps explanation was.

I guess your P needs to learn a little more self control.

When ever a discussion starts, let the coach say his peace. This gives you time to listen, and compose your response to just the facts, keep it as simple as possible, and supportable from the rules and interpretations.

The game of baseball is a managed conflict between two teams. The umpires are the only ones who are observers, so we need to keep our cool all the time.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And even if you have a legal slide, it does not preclude you from committing MC.

Peace

Really, I'm not trying to beat the horse

Can you commit MC in the course of executing a legal slide.
If so, how?

Spikes up and being airborne are not legal slides so that doesn't count.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Really, I'm not trying to beat the horse

Can you commit MC in the course of executing a legal slide.
If so, how?

Spikes up and being airborne are not legal slides so that doesn't count.

Once again, the OP that you made was not about the issue of the legality of the slide. You only asked about when the slide starts as if the staring of the slide exonerated the runner from causing MC. Secondly the slide in question was not legal.

But for the example I gave the slide and ended and the runner decided to plow the catcher after he legally slide.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

If he was wasn't safe at the time of the malicious contact, when the ball is dead immediately, the runner is out. I don't see a run scoring in this situation.

Not in OBR, or the modified versions of it. The result of the play is what counts. The ball got knocked out of the catcher's mitt, and the runner won the race back to the plate. Safe, Time, You're Gone.

In HS games, you are correct that no run could possibly count. The only part of the Malicious Contact rule, or as it is commonly called "slide or avoid" rule, that carries over into OBR-based youth ball games is the ejection penalty.