I took your advice...

[johnnyg08]

I was BU today...my PU had a pitch 1-2 count and the hitter swings and misses but the pitch hits the batter in the foot. B-R runs to 1B and R1 sprints for 2B (The pitch is a WP) and the Defensive coach screams "hey, he's out at 1B" by partner says...yep, he's out at 1B...FED rules(but I think it applies in all threads)...R1 advanced to 2B...anyway...runner doesn't score...between innings I tell PU..."are you sure R1 can advance on a ball that hits B on strike 3?" He says, yep, the ball is live... I say... "are you sure? a pitched ball that hits a batter is live?" He says...I think you're right...why didn't you call me in to let me know...I say..."I didn't want to show you up..." Did I do okay here...or should I have stepped in and told him the correct rule and returned the runner to 1B???

Thanks guys...

[Cub42]

The batter has a 1-2 count, swings and misses, and is hit by the pitch.
1) You have a dead ball,(HBP) strike 3 batter is out.
2) No runners can advance on this as it is dead. Put the runners back.
3) Go over the rulebook, this is something HS umpires must know

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I was BU today...my PU had a pitch 1-2 count and the hitter swings and misses but the pitch hits the batter in the foot. B-R runs to 1B and R1 sprints for 2B (The pitch is a WP) and the Defensive coach screams "hey, he's out at 1B" by partner says...yep, he's out at 1B...FED rules(but I think it applies in all threads)...R1 advanced to 2B...anyway...runner doesn't score...between innings I tell PU..."are you sure R1 can advance on a ball that hits B on strike 3?" He says, yep, the ball is live... I say... "are you sure? a pitched ball that hits a batter is live?" He says...I think you're right...why didn't you call me in to let me know...I say..."I didn't want to show you up..." Did I do okay here...or should I have stepped in and told him the correct rule and returned the runner to 1B???

Thanks guys...

The call on R1 is *your call*. You should have put him back. This is not "showing up" PU.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I was BU today...my PU had a pitch 1-2 count and the hitter swings and misses but the pitch hits the batter in the foot. B-R runs to 1B and R1 sprints for 2B (The pitch is a WP) and the Defensive coach screams "hey, he's out at 1B" by partner says...yep, he's out at 1B...FED rules(but I think it applies in all threads)...R1 advanced to 2B...anyway...runner doesn't score...between innings I tell PU..."are you sure R1 can advance on a ball that hits B on strike 3?" He says, yep, the ball is live... I say... "are you sure? a pitched ball that hits a batter is live?" He says...I think you're right...why didn't you call me in to let me know...I say..."I didn't want to show you up..." Did I do okay here...or should I have stepped in and told him the correct rule and returned the runner to 1B???

Thanks guys...

You guys are a TEAM out there....don't let your partner die with a bad call, get the rules correct.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Cub42

The batter has a 1-2 count, swings and misses, and is hit by the pitch.
1) You have a dead ball,(HBP) strike 3 batter is out.
2) No runners can advance on this as it is dead. Put the runners back.
3) Go over the rulebook, this is something HS umpires must know

Thanks Cub. Johnny knows that. That's not his question. His question regards how to communicate to his partner that his partner may have messed up a rule.

[mcrowder]

Johnny - sometimes this is a tough line to draw. I understand that you've read a lot of threads here about poaching calls and who is responsible for what. Kudos on that.

I think that if your partner has made a judgement call that you disagree with, you keep it quiet unless he asks for your opinion. But in this case, it's a rule misinterpretation - and you have a responsibility to fix that when it happens - ideally by calling time, discussing it, and letting partner fix it.

I disagree with the post stating that this was your call - dead ball vs no-dead-ball on this play was your partner's call (heck ... maybe it just looked like it hit the batter from your angle, and it actually didn't - PU is closer) and dead ball is the only reason R1 must return. But once you learned via discussion with PU that the ball hit the batter, he needs to be the one to announce that it was a dead ball and the runner needs to return.

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The call on R1 is *your call*. You should have put him back. This is not "showing up" PU.

Exactly. You saw the ball hit the batter, you should have a dead ball just as well as the PU. Similiar to a ball that hits the batters foot etc.,

Even if PU doesn't call it, you can and should.

Thanks
David

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by David B

Exactly. You saw the ball hit the batter, you should have a dead ball just as well as the PU. Similiar to a ball that hits the batters foot etc.,

Even if PU doesn't call it, you can and should.

Thanks
David

I can see your point ... but BU is 100 feet away, and PU didn't kill the play from 3 feet away. As BU, unless I was POSITIVE the ball hit the batter, I'd be hard pressed to kill the play immediately. I guarantee I'd be asking my partner what he saw when the play ended, as stated above... but the WORST thing we can do is kill a live ball - so I'd err on the side of fixing this one afterward.

[shickenbottom]

These types of situations are one thing you want to make sure both you and your partner are on the same page.

With that said, you should review during pregame that any time a pitched ball hits the batter while they are in the box, your response in the field will be "Time." Some officials will call "Dead Ball", but "Time" generally freezes everyone. After my partner says dead ball, I usually remove my hat, put it across my chest and look down for a moment of rembrance for the dead ball.

This includes batted balls that go off the batter. If your partner wants you to wait a moment to give him a chance to make the call, then kill the play. If any official takes offense to his partner killing the play, the official needs an attitude adjustment.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I can see your point ... but BU is 100 feet away, and PU didn't kill the play from 3 feet away. As BU, unless I was POSITIVE the ball hit the batter, I'd be hard pressed to kill the play immediately. I guarantee I'd be asking my partner what he saw when the play ended, as stated above... but the WORST thing we can do is kill a live ball - so I'd err on the side of fixing this one afterward.

Those were my thoughts 100% (except for the fact that at the time, I didn't fix the play)...I was not 100% sure that it hit him from where I was...That being said, I was 99.99999% sure but I did not want to kill a live ball...but PU was 3 feet away from him...we talked about it post game...in hindsight, I probably should've conferred w/ my partner and got it right at the time of the play...thank the baseball gods that it didn't make a difference in the game (no run scored)...but it was weird...I felt like I was the only guy in the park who knew that rule and by saying that, I'm not patting myself on the back...I just expected the defensive coach to come unglued! What am I saying??...that would be implying that all coaches know the rules... This coach is actually a really nice guy though...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Those were my thoughts 100% (except for the fact that at the time, I didn't fix the play)...I was not 100% sure that it hit him from where I was...That being said, I was 99.99999% sure but I did not want to kill a live ball...but PU was 3 feet away from him...

I have no problem with you *not* killing the play whent he ball hit the batter. If you had killed it and this had been the .00001% of the time that the ball didn't hit him, you would have had a tougher decision.

Once PU called the batter out, though, then you know that the ball hit the batter (or, at least, was ruled such). Then, you should have put R1 back on first.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I was BU today...my PU had a pitch 1-2 count and the hitter swings and misses but the pitch hits the batter in the foot.

Were you 99 - 100% sure? I will get to that later

As PU if my partner is 99-100% certain that the ball hit the batter I want him/her to kill it right away.

Why!

Answer: Why have holy He** break out when it can be avoided. It really irks me as PU if i didn't see something and play continues. After playing action stops everyone is Screaming "blue the ball hit him in the box"

I then call TIME and talk to my partner who says" Pete the ball hit B1 in the box"

My response: Then why did you allow play to continue.

Now back to the question I posed above.

if you as BU are 99-100% certain that the batter was HBP, then "kill it" immediately. This is NOT showing up your partner but part of your responsibilities as BU.

Generally when the ball is bouncing around the plate area, the PU has F2 to contend with and it's not uncommon that the PU can be blocked out on these type plays. In your play when the ball first hit the dirt, perhaps F2 jumped in front of the ball to keep it from getting away and in doing so, blocked the PU's view.

The aforementioned should be discussed at Pre-game so that each of you are on the same page.

Pete Booth

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Once PU called the batter out, though, then you know that the ball hit the batter (or, at least, was ruled such).

Actually ... he doesn't know that at all. Batter was out for striking out (and can't advance with a runner on 1st). The out had nothing to do with whether the ball hit the batter or not.

But I do agree that if he was in doubt, and thought the ball had hit the batter, he should go check with PU and then have PU send the runner back due to the dead ball.

[johnnyg08]

all great points fellas...fortunately there wasn't any rhubarb in this game...but to a couple points on here...I'm not going to kill a play (in this sitch) unless I am 100% sure that a pitched ball hit the batter...I'm too far away (approx 100 ft from home) to be 99% sure and kill the play...PU...if he can't see it...can certainly hear if the ball hit him...we could've handled this differently, I agree...but everything worked out so fortunately it's not a big deal

[BoomerSooner]

My thought on something like this is that from the bases I might be missing something (angle, distance, other factors). I'm going to let the play continue and then make sure to come in and talk to my PU to let him know what I saw. If I'm 100% sure the ball hit the batter, I'm going to say so and then we'll rectify accordingly, but if he says he's 100% sure it didn't I'm letting him take the call and we don't have to explain to a coach why I've killed a play that could have put his runner on 2B when the ball didn't hit the batter. I've never had a coach throw too big a fuss over returning runners on any dead ball situation where play was allowed to continue (maybe a fuss about whether or not the ball should have been dead, but thats a different discussion). Its the other way around that can get pretty loud.