Some advice please

aevans410 · #1 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 07:27am

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this, I'd like to have your opinions though.

I was paired up with a real a$$hole last night. First year guy, I really believe he was just looking to toss someone before the year ended.

He warned a student 1b coach to stay in his coaching box. When the coach sneaked out again (he was stealing signs) my partner started chewing out the HC at 3rd base. After the third out, the coach calmly asked my partner if he warned his 1b coach. When the conversation took place, I started walking out towards the conversation. I hear the coach say "Don't chew my a$$ like that, if he's doing something wrong, we can fix it, but there's no reason to talk to me like that". I started hurrying up as soon as I heard the word A$$. Too late, my partner tossed him. He left quitely. The factors here were:

1. The coach was not out of line one bit. Even after his EJ he was calm and professional.

2. The obscenity wasn't loud enough but for us (I was maybe 10 feet away when he said it) to hear.

3. My partner caused this EJ. He didn't have to act like a harda$$ towards this coach.

I didn't say a word. My partner ran him, thats the way it is. I didn't like it, but I backed his decision. I'm pretty sure I did the right thing. I also let my assignor know what happened and this guys lack of professionalism, poor mechanics, and general bad attitude. I hate "snitching" on other blues, but this guy made me and our whole association look bad.

To make it more interesting, an evaluator was there looking at us. I didn't know this until I talked to my assignor.

Even though the EJ was wrong, I did the right thing by standing behind my partner didn't I?

I know it may sound like a dumb question, It's just bothering me.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[Edited by aevans410 on May 11th, 2005 at 08:31 AM]

officialtony · #2 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 08:17am

Yes, you did the right thing. Your partner did enough damage on his own. For you to try to
" overturn " or otherwise change things would only have created more problems for you and him. It sounds like you did the best you could as quickly as you could. This guy will learn that he can control a game in many other ways without taking the hard road.

Bottom Line - back your partner at all times publicly.

There are some who will toss a coach for using anything that resembles cussing. If we provoke him to that state, is he wrong or are we? There is NO justification for cussing by coaches or competitors, but we certainly don't need to drive them there.
Just my humble opinion.

blueump · #3 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 08:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by officialtony

Bottom Line - back your partner at all times publicly.

Then chew his butt hard when you're back at the car!

thumpferee · #4 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 08:22am

I think you did the right thing in not saying or doing anything.

The way this guy was acting, you may have been the next one to go.

jicecone · #5 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 09:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by blueump

Quote:

Originally posted by officialtony

Bottom Line - back your partner at all times publicly.

Then chew his butt hard when you're back at the car!

Thats almost like yelling at the batter for not properly bunting the ball, when you NEVER taught him how to bunt in the first place.

WE tend to take new officials as being experienced in every facet of the game, when in fact they are inexperienced.

Being a hard a##, to teach someone NOT to be a hard a##, well!!!!!! Instructing him how to handle the situation the right way next time is more appropo.

aevans410 · #6 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 09:18am

On a side note. After the game, after I actually got him off of the field (I had to coax him off), I attempted to give him my opinion. I told him that instead of running him, since he was the only coach and the incident was minor, he may think of restricting him to the dugout next time. He told me he did what he had to do and he wasn't interested in my opinion. At that point, I just took my gear off, got into my car and left.

Carbide Keyman · #7 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 10:33am

If an umpire chooses not to accept calm, rational critique from a veteran of the wars, then there is nothing you can do for him. You backed him publicly, tried to steer him in the right direction privately, then wash your hands of him.

ozzy6900 · #8 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 10:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by aevans410
On a side note. After the game, after I actually got him off of the field (I had to coax him off), I attempted to give him my opinion. I told him that instead of running him, since he was the only coach and the incident was minor, he may think of restricting him to the dugout next time. He told me he did what he had to do and he wasn't interested in my opinion. At that point, I just took my gear off, got into my car and left.

Well, you did everything correctly. I suggest that you contact your assigner and inform him that you do not wish to work with this a$$hole again. It is quite obvious that he is full of himself!

aevans410 · #9 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 11:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900

Quote:

Originally posted by aevans410
On a side note. After the game, after I actually got him off of the field (I had to coax him off), I attempted to give him my opinion. I told him that instead of running him, since he was the only coach and the incident was minor, he may think of restricting him to the dugout next time. He told me he did what he had to do and he wasn't interested in my opinion. At that point, I just took my gear off, got into my car and left.

Well, you did everything correctly. I suggest that you contact your assigner and inform him that you do not wish to work with this a$$hole again. It is quite obvious that he is full of himself!

I've already done that

officialtony · #10 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 11:45am

I would agree that admonishing your partner after a game is not the answer. It's better to discuss options or alternative approaches to situations that may have occurred. i.e. If I was out of position on a call - why and what can I do to avoid that again. Did I have to eject - was it my fault to begin with and was there an alternative to tossing?
Just some different ideas about what to do with a partner after a game. I am always anxious to get reviews from my partners. I don't want to hear " you did a great job ". I know I booted one somewhere. Help me to avoid it happening again.
Your partner had no idea what and why. Hopefully someone somewhere will be able to reach him before he loses all credibility with the teams in your area - and your association members who will know soon enough they don't want to work with him.

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool - avoid him.
He who knows not and KNOWS that he knows not is a rookie - teach him.
He who knows and knows not that he knows is lost - help him find himself.
He who knows and knows that he knows is wise - follow him.

My adaptation to a quote I read once. Don't know the author.

PeteBooth · #11 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 12:23pm

Originally posted by aevans410

I also let my assignor know what happened and this guys lack of professionalism, poor mechanics, and general bad attitude. I hate "snitching" on other blues, but this guy made me and our whole association look bad.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

I do not have a problem with the way you handled things until you told your assignor what happened WITHOUT telling your partner first.

We need to be up-front with our partners. Yes we back each other ALL the way but when you get back to the car AWAY from everybody is where you need to have a POST game unless this particular umpire simply refused to.

By all means contact your assignor but also tell your partner "right up front" your evaluation. You do not know what happened during the day meaning perhaps a bad day at work boss all over his you know what etc. That is not an excuse but at least have a POST game to find out all DETAILS before you go BEHIND his back to the assignor.

I wouldn't want someone else to go behind my back. Also, I'm surprised unless you didn't mention it that the individual evaluating the game didn't tell you to have a POST game before going to the "Principal"

No matter how good an umpire you are or might become no-one likes a "rat" that will go behind his/her back whenever they have a bad game. Also, you said this guy is new so what kind of training does your association supply?

Pete Booth

aevans410 · #12 (**permalink**) Wed May 11, 2005, 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by aevans410
On a side note. After the game, after I actually got him off of the field (I had to coax him off), I attempted to give him my opinion. I told him that instead of running him, since he was the only coach and the incident was minor, he may think of restricting him to the dugout next time. He told me he did what he had to do and he wasn't interested in my opinion. At that point, I just took my gear off, got into my car and left.

I tried, he told me he wasn't interested in my opinion.

I wasn't about to help him after he stated to me directly he wasn't interested in what I had to say.

I didn't know the evaluator was even there until I actually talked to my assigner. Maybe he was looking at this guy as a "problem". I didn't know, and I didn't ask.

I have no problem with new umpires, I also think our association had a very good training program. I've worked with guys this year with horrendous mechanics, they asked for advice, I offered what I could, and pointed them in directions to find information to get better.

When he looked me in the eye and said (word for word) I'm not interested in your opinion, I had to toss him, so I did. I lost all interest in helping him. If he would have been receptive, I was ready to help him fill out his paperwork and make his phone calls.

[Edited by aevans410 on May 11th, 2005 at 01:55 PM]