Would you have called a balk?

[BigUmp56]

I did a varsity game tonight and for the first time I had a pitcher straddle the rubber and lean in to take his signs in a high school game. Of course the opposing coach immediately wanted a balk called since we had an R1 and an R2. I know that technically under 6.1 this is a balk. My question to you is would you have called it. Under OBR it's just a "don't do that."


Tim.

[justanotherblue]

As long as he isn't quick pitching, let it alone. The intent of the rule is to keep the pitcher from quick pitching. It's an argument no matter what you do.

[UmpJM]

Tim,

Once when I was writing an article on (non-) balks, I asked Carl Childress a similar question. His response was along the lines of (paraphrasing here...)

"Well, it is, but it isn't (a balk under FED rules). I've never called it & I've never seen it called. It's kind of a 'faux' balk."

With consideration to the caveats offered by justanotherblue, I wouldn't call it either.

JM

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

It is not technically specified as a balk in 6.1. How can you balk just standing still looking in at the catcher straddling the rubber? Did he simulate a pitching motion? Wait until he steps on before you balk if the pitcher does anything wrong. Quick pitch, illegal move, etc. If you want to tell the pitcher to take his signs on the rubber, feel free.

Technically, it is a balk if runners are on base. That said, I'm not calling it.

FED 6.1 [clipped] He shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate.

PENTALTY: The ball is dead immediately when an illegal pitch occurs. If there is no runner, a ball is awarded the batter. If there is a runner, such illegal act is a balk. In both situations, the umpire signals dead ball.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

So if it is a balk, why aren't you calling it?

There are a myriad of balks under FED rules that are called either infrequently or not at all. Do you call the "gorilla arm swing."


Tim.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Do you call a balk if the pitchers set with his hands held too high?

If you're asking about a pitcher coming set with his glove above his chin, no, it's not something usually called here. And that was the point I was trying to make to you when I asked about the "gorilla arm." There are items that we could call a balk and don't. I believe my situation tonight was one of those times.


Tim.

[mcrowder]

Not a balk, not a balk, not a balk.

A rule stating that the pitcher must take signs from the rubber (and generally interpreted as "must at least simulate taking signs from the rubber") does NOT mean he cannot take signs from elsewhere first. This (by itself) is NOT a balk.

Now ... say he takes the sign, then steps on the rubber and immediately pitches without pausing, then he has failed to take or simulate taking signs from the rubber. THEN you have a balk.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Not a balk, not a balk, not a balk.

A rule stating that the pitcher must take signs from the rubber (and generally interpreted as "must at least simulate taking signs from the rubber") does NOT mean he cannot take signs from elsewhere first. This (by itself) is NOT a balk.

Now ... say he takes the sign, then steps on the rubber and immediately pitches without pausing, then he has failed to take or simulate taking signs from the rubber. THEN you have a balk.

Not in FED, Mike. It's a balk to take signs while not in contact.


Tim.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Not a balk, not a balk, not a balk.

A rule stating that the pitcher must take signs from the rubber (and generally interpreted as "must at least simulate taking signs from the rubber") does NOT mean he cannot take signs from elsewhere first. This (by itself) is NOT a balk.

I agree wholeheartedly!!

FED 6-1-3
PENALTY (ART. 1, 2, 3): The ball is dead immediately when an illegal pitch occurs. If there is no runner, a ball is awarded the batter. If there is a runner, such illegal act is a balk. In both situations, the umpire signals dead ball.
It isn't an illegal pitch unless F1 fails to take a sign from the rubber. IMO he can communicate with F2 all he wants prior to engaging the rubber as long as he at least pretends to after engaging.

Now if F1 does anything else in combination with taking the sign from off the rubber that simulates his normal pitching routine I do have a balk. Not technically because he's taking signs but because he's simulating his pitching routine from off the rubber and deceiving the runner(s).

[DG]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Technically, it is a balk if runners are on base. That said, I'm not calling it.

FED 6.1 [clipped] He shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate.

PENALTY: The ball is dead immediately when an illegal pitch occurs. If there is no runner, a ball is awarded the batter. If there is a runner, such illegal act is a balk. In both situations, the umpire signals dead ball.

Where is the illegal pitch?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by DG

Where is the illegal pitch?

Doesn't the penalty phase at the end of 6.3 encompass all of 6.1? The penalty addresses not only an illegal pitch, but also an illegal act as spelled out in 6.1 through 3.


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Doesn't the penalty phase at the end of 6.3 encompass all of 6.1? The penalty addresses not only an illegal pitch, but also an illegal act as spelled out in 6.1 through 3.


Tim.

Carl thinks so. See item 378 in 2006 BRD. In OBR it's a "don't do that" pitching infraction. However, I still wonder, since the penalty is applied following an illegal pitch and if he is just taking the sign without his pivot foot on the rubber there is no illegal pitch, yet. Is it an illegal pitch to just take a sign? He hasn't pitched.

Anyway, regardless of ruling I have never seen this called in FED and have never had a coach argue for a balk to be called.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by DG

Carl thinks so. See item 378 in 2006 BRD. In OBR it's a "don't do that" pitching infraction. However, I still wonder, since the penalty is applied following an illegal pitch and if he is just taking the sign without his pivot foot on the rubber there is no illegal pitch, yet. Is it an illegal pitch to just take a sign? He hasn't pitched.

Anyway, regardless of ruling I have never seen this called in FED and have never had a coach argue for a balk to be called.

Tonight was the first time I've seen it argued for as well. I think the manager was on edge after I balked his pitcher for turning his shoulder after coming set. He was just fishing for a call.


Tim.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Where does it specifically say it is a balk to take signs from the catcher with the pivot foot not contacting the rubber?

FED 6.1 He shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate. The pitching regulations begin when he intentionally contacts the pitcher's plate. So if it is a balk, why aren't you calling it?

I don't know how to make it any plainer for you. The rule states that "He (the pitcher) shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate."

The penalty for not doing so is an illegal pitch if there are no runners on base or a balk if there are runners.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

It is not technically specified as a balk in 6.1. How can you balk just standing still looking in at the catcher straddling the rubber? Did he simulate a pitching motion? Wait until he steps on before you balk if the pitcher does anything wrong. Quick pitch, illegal move, etc. If you want to tell the pitcher to take his signs on the rubber, feel free.

Can you explain to me why it's not a balk under 6.1? I agree wholeheartedly with not calling it, but I wonder why you feels it's not a balk.


Tim.