courtesy runner question

[newump]

Fed rules - Paul, the starting pitcher is due to bat in the 4th inning, a PH replaces him and walks, coach then re-enters Paul and Paul replaces the PH at first base. Coach then attempts to insert a courtesy runner at 1st base for Paul. is this legal? i say no because at this point Paul is no longer the pitcher. thoughts?

[David B]

Originally Posted by newump

Fed rules - Paul, the starting pitcher is due to bat in the 4th inning, a PH replaces him and walks, coach then re-enters Paul and Paul replaces the PH at first base. Coach then attempts to insert a courtesy runner at 1st base for Paul. is this legal? i say no because at this point Paul is no longer the pitcher. thoughts?

Question then, who is the pitcher?

FED this is perfectly legal.

Thanks
David

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by newump

Fed rules - Paul, the starting pitcher is due to bat in the 4th inning, a PH replaces him and walks, coach then re-enters Paul and Paul replaces the PH at first base. Coach then attempts to insert a courtesy runner at 1st base for Paul. is this legal? i say no because at this point Paul is no longer the pitcher. thoughts?

There's a specific FED interp of a few years ago (which I posted recently on another website) that makes this play legal.

[TwoBits]

Doesn't exactly speed up the game like the courtesy runner rule is supposed to do, does it?

[DG]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There's a specific FED interp of a few years ago (which I posted recently on another website) that makes this play legal.

Please dig it up and share because it sounds like Paul was no longer the pitcher when he was substituted for, and until he takes the mound he is still not the pitcher.

[newump]

please provide the specific interpretation. i've rec'd 2 different answers from 2 different local fed piaa chapter interpreters.

isn't this situation similar to a coach trying use a courtesy runner for a player that he indicates will enter as a pitcher or catcher in the next half inning?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

Please dig it up and share because it sounds like Paul was no longer the pitcher when he was substituted for, and until he takes the mound he is still not the pitcher.

FED 2005 Interps, Situation 2: In the home half of the third inning, Team A's catcher is legally pinch-hit for by S1. S1 draws a walk, and the coach legally re-enters the catcher. Now, with the catcher on first base, the home team's coach requests and uses a courtesy runner for the catcher. RULING: This is a legal use of the courtesy runner.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Doesn't exactly speed up the game like the courtesy runner rule is supposed to do, does it?

I have NEVER seen the courtesy runner rule ever used for anything other than tactical advantage. The reason somebody runs for the catcher or pitcher is ALWAYS because they are a faster runner. If the catcher was a speedster - I can assure you there will be no courtesy runner. As if the coach is going to care about the extra few seconds it takes for him to put on his equipment. According to the rules, there is no allowance for that time anyway. The defense gets ONE MINUTE for warm-ups. If that minute has expired by the time the catcher takes the field - it's "Play ball!"

As long as the outcome of the game hangs in the balance, you can be assured the coach will always exercise the option that places the faster runner on the bases.

It is naive to think the coach is more concerned about the SPEED of the game than he is the OUTCOME of the game.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[DG]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

FED 2005 Interps, Situation 2: In the home half of the third inning, Team A's catcher is legally pinch-hit for by S1. S1 draws a walk, and the coach legally re-enters the catcher. Now, with the catcher on first base, the home team's coach requests and uses a courtesy runner for the catcher. RULING: This is a legal use of the courtesy runner.

FED!! It's a projected substitute and another bad FED interp.

So, if I have a slow F3 2b and he is the tying run I can put in a substitute catcher in and tell the ump he will be my next catcher.

Obviously, I will remember this for the future, but it's a classic.

[newump]

thanks for the interp - is that from casebook? if not, where, thanks. I know I am going to be asked to cite my source.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

No, you missed the point. You gave a projected substitution. It's no different than if he sent in a CR for the catcher who caught the last inning then sent in a substitute to do the catching after the teams change sides. That is legal. That player is still the catcher of record.

Situation.

Catcher is pinch hit for.
Pinch hitter gets on base.
Coach re-enters player who was catcher.
Coach then re-enters courtesy runner for catcher.

Remember the positions are married to each other. Same would apply to the pitcher.

He sent in a substitute, a PH, not a courtesy runner. The catcher is no longer in the game and therefore no longer the catcher. He is the former catcher, not the current catcher. There is no catcher of record since that person is no longer in the game. Anyone who will catch next is a projected catcher.

He then sent in a courtesy runner for a substitute player who has not fielded a position yet, so we don't know where he would have played, but wherever it is, it is a projection, since he could play anywhere.

It may be legal per FED interp but it is not logical. A substitute for a starter on offense puts the starter out of the game and until the defense takes the field we have no idea where the substitute will play.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by newump

thanks for the interp - is that from casebook? if not, where, thanks. I know I am going to be asked to cite my source.

It was posted on the FED web-site, and published in the NFHS Quarterly Magazine.