Infield Fly - F7 runs in from LF to the edge of IF

[johnnyg08]

R1 & R2, 0 out

windy day, B1 hits a fly ball that ends up falling about 6 - 10 feet from the edge of the infield onto the outfield grass. F7 calls F6 off and makes an attempt at the catch and does not make the catch (no intentional drop)...according to my interpretation in OBR about an outfielder who sets up as an infielder versus running in on a play from the standard LF position changes the Infield Fly rule to where it wouldn't be ordinary effort if F7 had to run in significantly to make a catch as was the case here. What do you guys think? Can an outfielder running in from his position qualify for Infield Fly?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

R1 & R2, 0 out

windy day, B1 hits a fly ball that ends up falling about 6 - 10 feet from the edge of the infield onto the outfield grass. F7 calls F6 off and makes an attempt at the catch and does not make the catch (no intentional drop)...according to my interpretation in OBR about an outfielder who sets up as an infielder versus running in on a play from the standard LF position changes the Infield Fly rule to where it wouldn't be ordinary effort if F7 had to run in significantly to make a catch as was the case here. What do you guys think? Can an outfielder running in from his position qualify for Infield Fly?

No, the question is could F6 have made the catch with ordinary effort? You have to factor in the wind, F6's positioning and the skill level of F6. Could he have made the catch with ordinary effort? If yes, infield fly. If no, nothing. F7 trying to make it on SportsCenter doesn't factor in.

[johnnyg08]

That's what I'm thinking too...and it wasn't that type of play...it wouldn't have been ordinary effort for F6 in this sitch. It does fall a lot on judgement. But once you call IFF...you better have IFF...that's for sure! :-) Thanks for your post.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

R1 & R2, 0 out

windy day, B1 hits a fly ball that ends up falling about 6 - 10 feet from the edge of the infield onto the outfield grass. F7 calls F6 off and makes an attempt at the catch and does not make the catch (no intentional drop)...according to my interpretation in OBR about an outfielder who sets up as an infielder versus running in on a play from the standard LF position changes the Infield Fly rule to where it wouldn't be ordinary effort if F7 had to run in significantly to make a catch as was the case here. What do you guys think? Can an outfielder running in from his position qualify for Infield Fly?

It makes no difference how far F7 had to run in to make the play. If you feel F6 could have made the play with ordinary effort it should be an IFF.
As CoachJM stated in another thread, the intent of the rule is to protect the offense from a cheap DP. R1 and R2 are forced to stay very close to their bag in this situation and if the ball is dropped, intentionally or not it's fairly easy to turn the DP. You don't want to be rewarding the defense for screwing up. If it's a texas league bloop then it's not IFF, but if F6 was set to make the catch and F7 was overly aggressive in calling him off then it's definitely IFF.

[waltjp]

Don't be in a hurry to call the IFF. Make sure there is somebody there that can make the catch with ordinary effort. If I know it's a windy day I'll talk to my partner about taking even more time to make the call. As mentioned previously - there rule is there to protect the offense, not give away easy outs. What's the worst case situation if you wait too long or don't call it?

In nearly 20 years of umpiring I've never seen a problem occur because somebody waited or didn't declare a pop-up an IFF. I have, however, seen many problems because somebody called an IFF that shouldn't have been.

[FTVMartin]

No F7 can't be considered but F6 is the important player here. I always judge ordinary effort as "is the infielder camped underneath it?" If he is still moving into position then I don't call it.

I agree that it is better to wait to make the call than call it to early.

[johnnyg08]

But can't F7 move into the IF then the IFF rule would then apply to F7 as well?

[Tim C]

Cripes and I just wanted to disappear from these threads.

I am glad to see that someone (Johnny) understands the rule.

An outfielder can be involved just as well as an infielder on an IFF. The rules DO NOT define a difference between infielders and outfielders for ANY rules.

I know you guys all know this but your answers could lead others to believe something else.

I remain,

"The Notorious Thread Deleter"

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

But can't F7 move into the IF then the IFF rule would then apply to F7 as well?

If he starts out there, yes.

But the criteria is could an infielder catch it with ordinary effort. If so, it doesn't matter who actually caught it.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Cripes and I just wanted to disappear from these threads.

I am glad to see that someone (Johnny) understands the rule.

An outfielder can be involved just as well as an infielder on an IFF. The rules DO NOT define a difference between infielders and outfielders for ANY rules.

I know you guys all know this but your answers could lead others to believe something else.

I remain,

"The Notorious Thread Deleter"

Unfortunately, the rules do define a difference between infielders and outfielders, and the specific rule where it does is the definition of an IFF.

Originally Posted by Rule 2.00

An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.

So barring an odd defensive alignment, F7 cannot be considered when determining IFF or not. Which, unsurprisingly, is what the rest of us has said.

[johnnyg08]

Have you ever seen a coach bring in an outfielder to play infield when the game winning run is on 3B? The defense walks the bases loaded in order to create the IFF and a force at all bases...I have seen this several times...in this instance, yes, F7 is in the infield, he is an infielder, but he's the left fielder playing in the infield...otherwise, what is his position name since all of the other infielders have their position names? It's not really an odd defensive alignment...it's a strategical defensive formation.

[Tim C]

Major Edit

Rather than be silly and argumentative I changed this post to read:

1) Can an infield fly be "uncalled"? Can my partner say: "No it is not high enough?"

Note: I do not mean when an umpire calls an infield fly in error because he either is mistaken in outs or in the placement of the runners,

2) What is the timing for the umpire to call infield fly? Every single camp, clinic, classic, academy or umpire school all say to call the infield fly when the ball reaches the apex of flight.

I really hope no one disagrees with this universal mechanic.

So,

Play Situation:

R1 and R2 with less than two out.

Infield and outfield are playing in a normal defensive set.

The day's weather is lightly overcast with little to no wind.

The Batter hits a high pop-up directly at F4.

As a well trained umpire crew you all wait until the ball reaches its highest point and two of the crew, including you the PU, correctly call "Infield Fly if Fair!"

The ball comes down and the ball is dropped by, OH NO, the Right Fielder who has run into the infield!

Please make your ruling.

I remain,

"The Notorious Thread Deleter"

T

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Have you ever seen a coach bring in an outfielder to play infield when the game winning run is on 3B? The defense walks the bases loaded in order to create the IFF and a force at all bases...I have seen this several times...in this instance, yes, F7 is in the infield, he is an infielder, but he's the left fielder playing in the infield...otherwise, what is his position name since all of the other infielders have their position names? It's not really an odd defensive alignment...it's a strategical defensive formation.

No I haven't seen that alignment in well over 1,000 games umpired. I imagine it does happen from time to time, but it clearly falls into the category of an odd defensive alignment.

Originally Posted by GarthB

RIF

I am not familiar with this acronym.

[johnnyg08]

Oh well...anyway, thanks guys...I do appreciate all of your feedback with respect to the original scenario. I did learn a few new interpretations while reading.

[mook11]

I have to admit that I have not done many games but...

The defense walks the bases loaded in order to create the IFF and a force at all bases...I have seen this several times...

I have never seen a defense walk the bases loaded to create an infield fly situation. I can't even imagine why someone would do so.