Infield Fly Rule - Ball Drops

[FTVMartin]

I called abatter out for this for this first time last week.

I saw him set up in the front of the box but didn't pay much attention to it. His stride took him about a foot in front of the box while a couple of balls missed badly low. This made me notice where his foot was. Then he swung and missed at the next two pitches, still way in front of the box. I made up my mind that I was calling him out if he made contact.

Next pitch he grounded to third and I called him out.

Of course coach argued but I showed him the footprint and he just *****ed that it wasn't a good baseball call. I told him it is a baseball rule so I made the call.

Question, how much should we let the batter get away with? I know that if any part of his foot is on the line he is good but how much past that do you guys go? In this case I felt it was way too far to let it go.

[jimpiano]

Bases loaded and 1 out.

Batter hits pop near first base.

Infield fly is invoked.

Runner on third comes home and scores before
batter runner interferes with first baseman making the catch, causing ball to drop safely in fair ground,

1. Does the run count? If not, why not?
2. If there was no runner on second and the same set of circumstances, would the run count? If not, why not?

[SAump]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Bases loaded and 1 out.
Batter hits pop near first base.
Infield fly is invoked.

Runner on third comes home and scores before
batter runner interferes with first baseman making the catch, causing ball to drop safely in fair ground,

1. Does the run count? If not, why not?
2. If there was no runner on second and the same set of circumstances, would the run count? If not, why not?

1. No, failure to retouch
2. No, see 1.

Infield fly batter out, I on B/R prevents DP on R1 for 2nd out, and TP on R3 for 3rd out.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by SAump

1. No, failure to retouch
2. No, see 1.

Infield fly batter out, I on B/R prevents DP on R1 for 2nd out, and TP on R3 for 3rd out.

Please quote the rule for me in baseball that would not allow a run that scored before any interference?

There is no leaving early penalty if a fly ball is not caught, infield fly rule or not.
No out can be recorded in either circumstance for that, regardless of the interference.

So the question is does the interference negate the run? What rule in baseball covers that?

[UmpJM]

jimpiano,

That would be the "Offensive Interference" rule(s).

The ball is dead, runners return to their TOP base.

Check Rule 2.0. You should find it somewhere between Ignorance and Knowledge.

JM

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

1. Batter is already out on IFF rule. If he interferes with catch of F3, ball is dead at time of interference. R3 would be ruled out for interference by batter. You still have to allow defense the opportunity to catch the ball. No triple play.

2. If no runner is on second, the IFF rule is not in effect.

Thank you Steven, we are making progress on this rule.


So in case number two, the run would score?

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

jimpiano,

That would be the "Offensive Interference" rule(s).

The ball is dead, runners return to their TOP base.

Check Rule 2.0. You should find it somewhere between Ignorance and Knowledge.

JM

Thanks for your input.
I can see why you are a coach and not an umpire.

[UmpJM]

Jimbo,

De nada.

You didn't read the rule, did you?

If it's too much trouble, I believe the text most relevant to your question is:

Rule 2.00 (Interference) Comment: In the event the batter-runner has not reached first base, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch.

The run does not score.

JM

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Jimbo,

De nada.

You didn't read the rule, did you?

If it's too much trouble, I believe the text most relevant to your question is:



The run does not score.

JM

Wow, you can recite a rule.

Was that so hard?

Thanks.


Trying to rewrite a rule in softball that allows the run to score

[UmpJM]

jimpiano,

Trying to rewrite a rule in softball that allows the run to score

Well, why didn't you say so?

If I'm reading you correctly, you think the run should score in at least one of the two sitches you posed, possibly both. Why would you think that?

JM

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Please quote the rule for me in baseball that would not allow a run that scored before any interference?

There is no leaving early penalty if a fly ball is not caught, infield fly rule or not.
No out can be recorded in either circumstance for that, regardless of the interference.

So the question is does the interference negate the run? What rule in baseball covers that?

Take your pick ...

FED:8-4-2g
NCAA: 8-5-e
OBR: 7.09(f)

I think I got them right.
(Basic assumption: Since the runner from 3rd has already crossed the plate, he is in jeopardy of being doubled off third after the catch).

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

jimpiano,



Well, why didn't you say so?

If I'm reading you correctly, you think the run should score in at least one of the two sitches you posed, possibly both. Why would you think that?

JM

I don't think a run should score in either case since it would have the offensive team profit from it's violation of the rules.

But in ASA Softball in scenario number two the run would count since the interference occured after the runner had crossed the plate.

In scenario number one the umpire could prevent the run by ruling that the interference happened when the batter, out by IFF Rule, kept running, thus moving up the actual interference violation, and also getting a double play.

As I said , the rule as written in ASA regarding intererference, allows a runner to score even if the batter/runner does not reach first base and commits interference.

It needs to be changed to something like the rule in baseball.

That was all I was after.

Thank you

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by SAump

1. No, failure to retouch
2. No, see 1.

Infield fly batter out, I on B/R prevents DP on R1 for 2nd out, and TP on R3 for 3rd out.

Wow. That's just horrible.

So ... you require runners to retouch their bases on uncaught fly balls? Even worse ... you call them out and nullify their runs even if the defense doesn't appeal.

Your ANSWER may be right, but your reasoning is 100% incorrect.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I don't think a run should score in either case since it would have the offensive team profit from it's violation of the rules.

But in ASA Softball in scenario number two the run would count since the interference occured after the runner had crossed the plate.

In scenario number one the umpire could prevent the run by ruling that the interference happened when the batter, out by IFF Rule, kept running, thus moving up the actual interference violation, and also getting a double play.

As I said , the rule as written in ASA regarding intererference, allows a runner to score even if the batter/runner does not reach first base and commits interference.

It needs to be changed to something like the rule in baseball.

That was all I was after.

Thank you

As much as I'm normally the first one to jump all over Jim when he screws up here ... he's right. ASA softball's rules have the "runner closest to home" called out in this sitch. The runner who has scored is no longer a runner.

And he's right that the rule needs to be rewritten, as I don't believe that ANY of us think that the intent of the rulesmakers was to allow a run in this sitch.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

1. Batter is already out on IFF rule. If he interferes with catch of F3, ball is dead at time of interference. R3 would be ruled out for interference by batter. You still have to allow defense the opportunity to catch the ball. No triple play.

Original sitch: Already 1 out, DP is fine.

Would TP be possible? Example: F3 camped below ordinary fly near 1B. Catches ball, steps on 1B to double up R1 and end the inning, and then throws to F5 to to erase run with an apparent 4th out appeal. Now add B/R, knowing R1, R2 and R3 are a sitting ducks on the basepath, interefering with F3 to prevent F3 from catching fly ball. Triple play?