Circles at home plate

[tibear]

Last of the confusing clinic questions:

On a fly to short center, the runner tries to score from third, but a strong throw beats him by several feet. The runner slides around the catcher and not only avoids the tag but misses the plate by at least a foot. Hoping to bluff it out, the runner nonchalantly start for the dugout, but the catcher starts chasing him. Trying to avoid the catcher, the runner circles around him getting back to the plate. Is the runner safe?


I'll just say the answer key and clinician said yes. I said the baseline for the runner was established as soon as the catcher was attempting tag and should be ruled out for running outside baseline. Clinician said once the runner is past home there is no baseline and is free to run anywhere to get back to plate.

[UmpJM]

tibear,

While your clinician is certainly very "innovative", which is all the rage these days, he really ought to learn the rules before he goes teaching clinics. From the MLBUM:

5.3 RUNNER MISSES HOME PLATE
Should a runner, in scoring, fail to touch home plate and continue on his way to the bench (making no effort to return), he may be put out by the fielder touching home plate and appealing to the umpire for a decision. However, this rule applies only where a runner is on his way to the bench and the catcher would be required to chase the runner. It does not apply to the ordinary play where the runner misses the plate and then immediately makes an effort to touch the plate before being tagged. In that case, the runner must be tagged. In such cases, base path rules still apply to the runner (i.e., he may not run more than three feet from the "baseline" between him and home plate).

JM

[LMan]

This must have been one helluva clinic.

[GarthB]

You didn't pay anything to attend this clinic did you?

[mcrowder]

Bad advice from the clinician. Again.

It should be noted that this runner may get more leeway than others, in that he also has his baseline between himself and THIRD base available to him. If he was in the 1B Dugout, then what appears to be running 3 feet outside his basepath between himself and home could possibly be running ALONG his basepath to 3rd.

[TwoBits]

Seriously, where was this clinic, who was this "clinician", and what type of baseball was this clinic for?

[tibear]

Originally Posted by GarthB

You didn't pay anything to attend this clinic did you?

$50 Canadian or about $10 US. (Probably about $45 US)

There were alot of things taught that I had to "discuss".

He wanted an automatic double out call if R1 is either: hit by a batted ball or if R1 interferes with a defensive player making a play on a batted ball.

I added, "only if in your opinion, R1 deliberately got hit by the batted ball or deliberately interfered with the defensive player". He maintained his position until I asked him how he knew with 100% certainty what the defensive player was going to do with the ball and asked him to show me the double out call in the rulebook?

I'm starting my third year of umpiring, (many years of coaching before that) and its sad to see so many "senior" umpires who don't know the rules. The umpire classifications in Canada are ranked 1,2,3,4 and 5, with 1 the lowest and 5 being a international classified umpire.

I'm frustrated in the fact that I cannot be progress through to level 4 until I have at least 5 years of experience but have seen many level 4 umpires(which this clinician was) who don't know the rules.

Had a group of level 4 umpires try to tell me last year that a ball that bounces through the strike zone is a strike!! It wasn't until I pulled out the rule book and showed them the definition of a ball that they would believe me. (You should have seen their faces when someone dared to pull a rulebook on them!!!)

[tibear]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Seriously, where was this clinic, who was this "clinician", and what type of baseball was this clinic for?

I'll just say it was in Canada, with a level 4 umpire (able to do any game including national championships). In Canada, we only use OBR rules.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by tibear

$50 Canadian or about $10 US. (Probably about $45 US)

Hm. Would be a better deal to save the money and read (some) wrong answers here for free.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by LMan

Hm. Would be a better deal to save the money and read (some) wrong answers here for free.

Since we're required to re-certify every year I also wouldn't be qualified to continue umpiring!!!

[3appleshigh]

Tibear, I would be careful assuming just because they say they are level 4 that they are a level 4. They do make mistakes, but the bouncing ball one is just not one I see a true level four making. I know in Canada there are many people who love to say they are level four but are not. Also not all clinicians are level 4's.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

Tibear, I would be careful assuming just because they say they are level 4 that they are a level 4. They do make mistakes, but the bouncing ball one is just not one I see a true level four making. I know in Canada there are many people who love to say they are level four but are not. Also not all clinicians are level 4's.

All of the umpires I was talking to about the bouncing strike were level 4's. I know for a fact because they are all designated mentors to other umpires and you have to be a level 4 to be a mentor.

This clinician specifically said that he was a level 4 umpire for about 15 years and had worked a couple of national chamionships.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by tibear

Since we're required to re-certify every year I also wouldn't be qualified to continue umpiring!!!

Well, good heavens, don't fail to re-certify - your association obviously needs you desperately!

[UMP25]

Why does this thread make me want to sing "Blame Canada!" from the soundtrack of South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut?

[3appleshigh]

WOW just WOW, sad statement on those guys. What province Tibear??