Strike three in the dirt ruling?

[voiceoflg]

Broadcaster here. NFHS. Bases loaded, two out. Batter swings at a pitch in the dirt for strike three. The ball gets away from the catcher and the runners advanced. But the batter trots to the dugout. The catcher retrieves the ball and throws to first. Obviously it is an out and the run does not score on the force. I asked the kid after the game why he didn't try for first and he said first base was occupied so it was an out anyway. But R1 was running to second. Couldn't the batter try to make it to first?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Broadcaster here. NFHS. Bases loaded, two out. Batter swings at a pitch in the dirt for strike three. The ball gets away from the catcher and the runners advanced. But the batter trots to the dugout. The catcher retrieves the ball and throws to first. Obviously it is an out and the run does not score on the force. I asked the kid after the game why he didn't try for first and he said first base was occupied so it was an out anyway. But R1 was running to second. Couldn't the batter try to make it to first?

With two outs, the batter can always try for first on a D3K.

In your play, F2 did not need to throw the ball. The batter was out when he reached the dugout (or left the dirt circle in NCAA and OBR).

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Broadcaster here. NFHS. Bases loaded, two out. Batter swings at a pitch in the dirt for strike three. The ball gets away from the catcher and the runners advanced. But the batter trots to the dugout. The catcher retrieves the ball and throws to first. Obviously it is an out and the run does not score on the force. I asked the kid after the game why he didn't try for first and he said first base was occupied so it was an out anyway. But R1 was running to second. Couldn't the batter try to make it to first?

YES - With 2 outs dropped third strike applies. Less than two outs and runner on first it does not apply, batter is out.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Broadcaster here. NFHS. Bases loaded, two out. Batter swings at a pitch in the dirt for strike three. The ball gets away from the catcher and the runners advanced. But the batter trots to the dugout. The catcher retrieves the ball and throws to first. Obviously it is an out and the run does not score on the force. I asked the kid after the game why he didn't try for first and he said first base was occupied so it was an out anyway. But R1 was running to second. Couldn't the batter try to make it to first?

The runner from first running doesn't matter. He was on first at the start of the pitch so first is occupied.

The batter can run if there are two outs no matter what.

With less tan two outs, he can only run if first is not occupied.

[voiceoflg]

OK. Thanks for the input, guys. I really appreciate this forum as it educates us "talking heads" that actually don't want to say something wrong about the rules. You guys are a great resource.

Thanks again.

[Paul L]

Your listeners might enjoy knowing that the purpose of D3K rule, like the infield fly rule, is to protect the offense from the defense getting easy double plays by accidentally on-purpose failing to catch a pitched or batted ball.

[RPatrino]

Voice, whatever you do, don't listen to McCarver or Joe Morgan for rule education!!! The dreaded "foul tip" into the backstop..GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[voiceoflg]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Your listeners might enjoy knowing that the purpose of D3K rule, like the infield fly rule, is to protect the offense from the defense getting easy double plays by accidentally on-purpose failing to catch a pitched or batted ball.

Sounds like I need a casebook. I'm racking my brain while at work (hard to think about two things at once, I know) but how can the defense get an easy DP if that rule wasn't in place?

The light will probably go on during the drive home, but right now I'm drawing a blank.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Sounds like I need a casebook. I'm racking my brain while at work (hard to think about two things at once, I know) but how can the defense get an easy DP if that rule wasn't in place?

The light will probably go on during the drive home, but right now I'm drawing a blank.

Without the rule with less than 2 outs:

Runner on first, F2 intentionally drops strike three and throws to second for the force and then the relay for the double play.

[DG]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Sounds like I need a casebook. I'm racking my brain while at work (hard to think about two things at once, I know) but how can the defense get an easy DP if that rule wasn't in place?

The light will probably go on during the drive home, but right now I'm drawing a blank.

Bases loaded, 1 out. Catcher lets the ball drop to ground, picks it up and tags home and then throw to 1b for 3rd out.

[voiceoflg]

Got it. I thought of the bases loaded one on the drive home, but not the other one. Makes perfect sense. Thanks again, all.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Got it. I thought of the bases loaded one on the drive home, but not the other one. Makes perfect sense. Thanks again, all.

The original rule was that the batter always had to be put out. When F2 was standing a considerable distance behind home plate, and didn't wear a glove (or wore a smaller glove), and the fields weren't so well maintained, catching the ball (often on a bounce) and putting out the batter was far from a sure thing.

Then, as equipment improved and catcher's moved to (at least about) the current position, it became "too much" of a sure thing. It was obvious that BR was going to be out when F2 caught the ball, so why bother? So, the rule was changed to only require the BR to be put out when F2 did not catch the pitch.

Wily catchers soon learned the tricks mentioned in the previous posts to get an easy double play. So, the rule was again ameded to only allow the BR to try for first when a force-out double play was not possible -- either first is unoccupied, or two are already out.

[TwoBits]

[QUOTE=bob jenkins]The original rule was that the batter always had to be put out. When F2 was standing a considerable distance behind home plate, and didn't wear a glove (or wore a smaller glove), and the fields weren't so well maintained, catching the ball (often on a bounce) and putting out the batter was far from a sure thing.

Then, as equipment improved and catcher's moved to (at least about) the current position, it became "too much" of a sure thing. It was obvious that BR was going to be out when F2 caught the ball, so why bother? So, the rule was changed to only require the BR to be put out when F2 did not catch the pitch.
QUOTE]

I love that story. Whenever someone asks me why the "dropped third strike" rule was added, I explain to them that it was always part of the game since baseball was invented, and that it was a "caught third strike" rule that was actually added.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The original rule was that the batter always had to be put out. When F2 was standing a considerable distance behind home plate, and didn't wear a glove (or wore a smaller glove), and the fields weren't so well maintained, catching the ball (often on a bounce) and putting out the batter was far from a sure thing.

Then, as equipment improved and catcher's moved to (at least about) the current position, it became "too much" of a sure thing. It was obvious that BR was going to be out when F2 caught the ball, so why bother? So, the rule was changed to only require the BR to be put out when F2 did not catch the pitch.

I love that story. Whenever someone asks me why the "dropped third strike" rule was added, I explain to them that it was always part of the game since baseball was invented, and that it was a "caught third strike" rule that was actually added.