Batter out of the box...

[mj]

How do others handle this? Yesterday I called the batter out for being out of the batter's box. Have you warned the batter first? Or not called it at all? Or just called it as it should be called?

I have called this twice now in my relatively short umpiring career and both times the batter happened to hit run scoring singles.

[waltjp]

Call it if you see it but don't guess at it. Make sure the batter is clearly out of the box.

[lawump]

This is all but ignored on the professional level...unless its really, really blatant.

Now, as an amateur umpire, I don't even begin to think about calling it unless I'm getting complaints, or there is a very, very blatant violation (i.e. a batter clearly runs well outside of the box in an attempt to bunt a pitched ball).

Don't go looking for these calls, IMO. That's how I handle it.

[mcrowder]

How are you seeing it? Foot on the ground at the same time contact is made - aren't you looking at the ball in most cases here? Twice in a short time is a LOT. I think I've had this once in the past 5 - and it was a stationary bunter standing on the plate when he hit the ball.

Originally Posted by lawump

This is all but ignored on the professional level...unless its really, really blatant.

Now, as an amateur umpire, I don't even begin to think about calling it unless I'm getting complaints, or there is a very, very blatant violation (i.e. a batter clearly runs well outside of the box in an attempt to bunt a pitched ball).

Don't go looking for these calls, IMO. That's how I handle it.

Wouldn't you say if one foot is completely out of the batter's box that it's blatant - or the batter is stepping on home plate? It's an easy one to ignore, but come tournament time, what are you going to do? Nobody goes looking for them, but what usually happens is that the batter is standing on the inside edge and his natural motion carries him out. That's when I start to watch. Usually you'll catch it on bunt situations. The thing is you can't not call it if you see it unless you want to claim ignorance of the situation to the opposing coach. Then you are favoring the offending team IMHO

Originally Posted by mcrowder

How are you seeing it? Foot on the ground at the same time contact is made - aren't you looking at the ball in most cases here? Twice in a short time is a LOT. I think I've had this once in the past 5 - and it was a stationary bunter standing on the plate when he hit the ball.

How about peripheral vision? You always see more than you're seeing directly. It's just a matter of being able to process the two. You can still be watching the ball and catch the batter standing on home plate. If you're staring at your computer screen, is that your complete field of vision? NO, at the same time, even though you're looking at it, you can still see objects to the left, right, up, and down. Same thing.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Wouldn't you say if one foot is completely out of the batter's box that it's blatant - or the batter is stepping on home plate? It's an easy one to ignore, but come tournament time, what are you going to do? Nobody goes looking for them, but what usually happens is that the batter is standing on the inside edge and his natural motion carries him out. That's when I start to watch. Usually you'll catch it on bunt situations. The thing is you can't not call it if you see it unless you want to claim ignorance of the situation to the opposing coach. Then you are favoring the offending team IMHO

Worry about other things first.

BTW, stepping on home plate may or may not be a violation. In FED and NCAA it is. In OBR, and OBR-derived rules, the only criteria is that the foot be on the ground entirely outside the box. Home plate doesn't enter into it. And in all, if the batter hits the ball and only after that his foot comes down, it's not a violation. If you look down after the contact you might get the timing wrong - let alone that you should be tracking the ball for a fair/foul call and other live ball possibilities.

[LMan]

If you don't worry about it until/unless its blatant, then you'll see it. If it wasn't so obvious that Grandma in the 10th row saw it, you have more important concerns, like checkswings, calling the pitch, catcher's OBS, BI, HBP, fouls, etc......

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Worry about other things first.

What other things do you worry about first? As an umpire I observe what I observe. I don't stare at a player's feet to figure out if he steps out of the box. I don't go out of my way to look for any infraction. On the other hand, I don't ignore what I do see. If my peripheral vision allows me to see the infraction, fine. If not, I can honestly say to the opposing coach that I did not see the infraction. What I won't do is see the infraction, and then ignore it. That was my point.

[mj]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

How are you seeing it? Foot on the ground at the same time contact is made - aren't you looking at the ball in most cases here? Twice in a short time is a LOT. I think I've had this once in the past 5 - and it was a stationary bunter standing on the plate when he hit the ball.

By short time I mean I have been umpiring at the HS level for 5 years. Both times the batter was at least 5-6 inches outside of the box.

Originally Posted by mj

By short time I mean I have been umpiring at the HS level for 5 years. Both times the batter was at least 5-6 inches outside of the box.

Let's take this one step further - Batter in the box takes his stride with left foot and clearly steps out. LH pitcher, sharp breaking ball, breaks into batter who then turns his body away, the ball strikes the knob of the bat and rolls foul. What do you call it. Foul ball, or out for stepping out of box. It sounds rather far fetched, but a lot of the plays in the case book are far fetched as well. A good example is the foul tip that rebounds back to the pitcher.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

What other things do you worry about first? As an umpire I observe what I observe. I don't stare at a player's feet to figure out if he steps out of the box. I don't go out of my way to look for any infraction. On the other hand, I don't ignore what I do see. If my peripheral vision allows me to see the infraction, fine. If not, I can honestly say to the opposing coach that I did not see the infraction. What I won't do is see the infraction, and then ignore it. That was my point.

Much of the detail of what we think we see with our peripheral vision is inaccurate. Watch the ball, do your job. The number or times you "see" the batter with one foot on the ground completely out of the box will diminish greatly.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Let's take this one step further - Batter in the box takes his stride with left foot and clearly steps out. LH pitcher, sharp breaking ball, breaks into batter who then turns his body away, the ball strikes the knob of the bat and rolls foul. What do you call it. Foul ball, or out for stepping out of box. It sounds rather far fetched, but a lot of the plays in the case book are far fetched as well. A good example is the foul tip that rebounds back to the pitcher.

6.06
A batter is out for illegal action when --
(a) He hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter’s box.
Rule 6.06(a) Comment: If a batter hits a ball fair or foul while out of the batter’s box, he shall be called out. Umpires should pay particular attention to the position of the batter’s feet if he attempts to hit the ball while he is being intentionally passed. A batter cannot jump or step out of the batter’s box and hit the ball.

[mcrowder]

Next time you head to the park, go stand in the slot and have someone hold a ball in the middle of the zone and focus on it. While focusing on it, see how far your peripheral vision goes before it becomes fuzzy. 45 degrees (which is where a batter's foot would be) is VERY fuzzy - most people's quality peripheral vision is about 25-30 degrees.

Now add to this that the pitch is moving - and it greatly subtracts from your ability to TRULY see a foot not just out of the box but also contacting the ground at the same instant as he's hitting the pitch.

[PeteBooth]

IMO, we need to get REAL here. We have had terrible weather in the East as have other parts of the country. In some games there isn't even a line that defines the batter's box to begin with and for those that do have lines, they are gone by the end of inning 1.

I agree with Garth and others. If you start looking at the batter's feet etc. ultimately it will detract from your primary responsibilities as a plate person.

Pete Booth