Bunt hits batter!!!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by waltjp

If the BU sees the B/R get hit with the a batted ball he should call "time". You'd have a lot of explaining to do if he called "foul" as you were declaring the B/R out for being hit with a fair ball.

This is all overrated. If I call "foul" from the bases, plate umpire steps up and says, "no, no, no, he was out of the box, he's out" there's really precious little to explain, really.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

there's really precious little to explain, really.

Even less when it's done correctly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Even less when it's done correctly.

That wasn't my point.

Name one coach (that isn't a complete rat or a moron) that's going to come out and say: "No, no, no, you can't call him out -- the guy out there said FOUL instead of TIME."

It ain't no big deal. The base guy should keep his mouth shut until he's sure the plate guy isn't killing it anyway.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

That wasn't my point.

Name one coach (that isn't a complete rat or a moron) that's going to come out and say: "No, no, no, you can't call him out -- the guy out there said FOUL instead of TIME."

It ain't no big deal. The base guy should keep his mouth shut until he's sure the plate guy isn't killing it anyway.

What will happen is a coach will say ""No, no, no, you can't call him out -- the guy out there said FOUL." And, after a bit, someone gets ejected.

Sorry. I haven't yet gotten to the stage where I can advocate an incorrect mechanic because "there's precious little" to explain to fix it. I find doing it correctly reduces explanations and minimizes the risk of error.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

What will happen is a coach will say ""No, no, no, you can't call him out -- the guy out there said FOUL." And, after a bit, someone gets ejected.

Sorry. I haven't yet gotten to the stage where I can advocate an incorrect mechanic because "there's precious little" to explain to fix it. I find doing it correctly reduces explanations and minimizes the risk of error.

Any coach that does that is a moron that deserves to get run. I've never seen it happen, either. It's one of those little warnings we like to give to umpires to rally behind the correct mechanic, but it's really a non-issue.

I've stopped acting like umpiring is as serious as brain surgery. I'd have no problem calling batter interference in any level ball even if my base umpire partner called out "foul." Of course, I do just about everything by the book, so maybe I'm the wrong person to say, "Hey, lighten up" to anyone.

(Hell, I saw Ed Montague give two fists for a full count on Monday while wearing a penis hat. We amatoores would have a great time with a local Jim-Bob doing that.)

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Any coach that does that is a moron that deserves to get run. I've never seen it happen, either. It's one of those little warnings we like to give to umpires to rally behind the correct mechanic, but it's really a non-issue.

I've stopped acting like umpiring is as serious as brain surgery. I'd have no problem calling batter interference in any level ball even if my base umpire partner called out "foul." Of course, I do just about everything by the book, so maybe I'm the wrong person to say, "Hey, lighten up" to anyone.

(Hell, I saw Ed Montague give two fists for a full count on Monday while wearing a penis hat. We amatoores would have a great time with a local Jim-Bob doing that.)

To each his own. Maybe it's the teacher in me, maybe it's the evaluator in me, but I'm not ready to get sloppy when working with others on mechanics. One doesn't raise the bar by lowering expectations.

It doesn't matter to me how you umpire, Rich. I'll still work as I was trained, and train and evaluate others as correctly as I can. Again, I find working correctly results in fewer problems. I don't like problems.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

To each his own. Maybe it's the teacher in me, maybe it's the evaluator in me, but I'm not ready to get sloppy when working with others on mechanics. One doesn't raise the bar by lowering expectations.

It doesn't matter to me how you umpire, Rich. I'll still work as I was trained, and train and evaluate others as correctly as I can. Again, I find working correctly results in fewer problems. I don't like problems.

Correct is in the eye of the beholder, Garth. I'm more interested in how the umpires handle situations like this rather than whether the base umpire says "FOUL" or "TIME." The right way to handle this is for the base umpire to hesitate and give the plate umpire a chance to make this call himself.

Of course, I see a LOT of umpires come up with a call as soon as the ball hits the batter. Who cares if the call is FOUL or TIME when there shouldn't be one in the first place?

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Any coach that does that is a moron that deserves to get run. I've never seen it happen, either. It's one of those little warnings we like to give to umpires to rally behind the correct mechanic, but it's really a non-issue.

The fact of the matter is that (assuming FED) a coach would be justified for complaining that the PU can't call the batter out after BU has called foul ball, and he would be right because the ball became dead at the instant BU made the call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

The fact of the matter is that (assuming FED) a coach would be justified for complaining that the PU can't call the batter out after BU has called foul ball, and he would be right because the ball became dead at the instant BU made the call.

The ball became dead when the runner ran into it, by rule.

Just cause the base umpire says FOUL instead of TIME doesn't mean the plate umpire can't correctly apply interference. FOUL makes the ball dead in a FED game. So does TIME, BTW.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

This is all overrated. If I call "foul" from the bases, plate umpire steps up and says, "no, no, no, he was out of the box, he's out" there's really precious little to explain, really.

Except, if you're playing FED rules once it's called Foul it remains Foul. Whoops.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Except, if you're playing FED rules once it's called Foul it remains Foul. Whoops.

It does not. It remains DEAD. It can't go from FOUL to FAIR once called foul. But I can sure turn it into an out, especially since the ball is still dead.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

It does not. It remains DEAD. It can't go from FOUL to FAIR once called foul. But I can sure turn it into an out, especially since the ball is still dead.

Rich, it's not worth the argument. Do as you wish.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Rich, it's not worth the argument. Do as you wish.

I guess your signature applies to me, then.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I guess your signature applies to me, then.

Not exactly, Rich. I do respect your opinions and what you have to say. I just don't see the need to engage you on this topic.