1 base or 2 bases?

[BktBallRef]

From another board:

"Last year, one of our pitchers attempted to pick off a runner at first base, but the ball got past the first baseman and went out of play. The umpires awarded the runner third base. We argued that the pitcher had used a jump turn (i.e. simply spun and threw) and that since he had not stepped off the rubber, the runner should get only one base. The plate umpire said that the pitcher had disengaged from the rubber by making a jump turn and that therefore two bases were warranted.

I think he was wrong. In fact, his father (who is also an umpire) had explained the bases-awarded distinction to me by contrasting the stepoff and the jump turn. He said the tradeoff with the jump turn is that the runner is awarded only one base if the ball goes out of play, but the pitcher also runs the risk of balking if he doesn't spin toward first base. Does the rule book define "disengagement" from the pitching rubber, and if so, what does it say? Last year, one of our pitchers attempted to pick off a runner at first base, but the ball got past the first baseman and went out of play. The umpires awarded the runner third base. We argued that the pitcher had used a jump turn (i.e. simply spun and threw) and that since he had not stepped off the rubber, the runner should get only one base. The plate umpire said that the pitcher had disengaged from the rubber by making a jump turn and that therefore two bases were warranted.

I think he was wrong. In fact, his father (who is also an umpire) had explained the bases-awarded distinction to me by contrasting the stepoff and the jump turn. He said the tradeoff with the jump turn is that the runner is awarded only one base if the ball goes out of play, but the pitcher also runs the risk of balking if he doesn't spin toward first base. Does the rule book define "disengagement" from the pitching rubber, and if so, what does it say?"

Thanks in advance.

I don't get why you bring questions from "another board" here!

I believe you are from the NFHS board aren't you? Aren't you the evil moderator from there?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by rei

I don't get why you bring questions from "another board" here!

To get an answer, ovbiously. I believe that he moderates several of the rivals.com message boards. Possibly the question was posted there and he brought it here to get an answer.

A jump turn is a move from the rubber. It would be a 1 base award.

[justanotherblue]

One base, he didn't disengage from the rubber. And if he released the ball before his feet were in contact with the ground.. Balk... still one base.

[ctblu40]

From OBR-

8.01
(e) If the pitcher removes his pivot foot from contact with the pitcher’s plate by stepping backward with that foot, he thereby becomes an infielder and if he makes a wild throw from that position, it shall be considered the same as a wild throw by any other infielder.
Rule 8.01(e) Comment: The pitcher, while off the rubber, may throw to any base. If he makes a wild throw, such throw is the throw of an infielder and what follows is governed by the rules covering a ball thrown by a fielder.

So if he doesn't step backward with the pivot foot, he's still "in contact"
1 Base.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rei

I don't get why you bring questions from "another board" here!

I believe you are from the NFHS board aren't you? Aren't you the evil moderator from there?

I understand full well that you don't get it.

The questions that I bring here are NOT from the NFHS board. LDUB is correct. I moderate several Rivals boards, a BSPorts board, and the NFHS board.

These questions come from a different board that ask rules questions from all sports. I bring questions to this board because there are more posters on this site than any other. Therefore, I get more responses.

And yes, I am the evil moderator for people who come to the NFHS board and act like dumbasses.

Thanks to those who offered replies.

[SanDiegoSteve]

9,884 posts and a member of this forum since August of 2000. Why is someone with 67 posts who joined last month telling someone of this tenure how and what to post?

I would much rather participate in helping to educate those seeking answers, than read the boring threads about cups and jock straps that this site has been inundated with lately.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Why is someone with 67 posts who joined last month telling someone of this tenure how and what to post?

Aw geeze, now you've done it. Rei will have to post his resume now for the peons.

Again.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Aw geeze, now you've done it. Rei will have to post his resume now for the peons.

Again.

Oops, my bad.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I understand full well that you don't get it.

The questions that I bring here are NOT from the NFHS board. LDUB is correct. I moderate several Rivals boards, a BSPorts board, and the NFHS board.

These questions come from a different board that ask rules questions from all sports. I bring questions to this board because there are more posters on this site than any other. Therefore, I get more responses.

And yes, I am the evil moderator for people who come to the NFHS board and act like dumbasses.

Thanks to those who offered replies.

So why don't you just send them here to ask the question?

You must have banned that whole board! And the big question is, why you have not banned yourself from there!

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

9,884 posts and a member of this forum since August of 2000. Why is someone with 67 posts who joined last month telling someone of this tenure how and what to post?

Sorry Steve, the number of posts does not correlate with experience or ability.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Sorry Steve, the number of posts does not correlate with experience or ability.

And being a legend in your own mind does?

"I'm an NCAA umpire and you're not!"

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And being a legend in your own mind does?

"I'm an NCAA umpire and you're not!"

No, being able to walk the talk does. Actually working the levels you list does. Being a good umpire does.

Rei is a good umpire with excellent experience and credentials. I've never heard him whine "if only....I coulda, woulda or shoulda."

He's been there, done that, still doing that.

I don't know why this offends you.

On a related note, this is why a number of good MiLB umpire don't post on boards and help us with their experience. As soon as they describe their backgrounds, some jerk accuses them of being "legends in their own mind."

I suppose you're happier with when we get new posters along the lines of Littleboyblue, LLdan and Pugsley11.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Sorry Steve, the number of posts does not correlate with experience or ability.

Sorry Garth, but neither does what level of ball you've worked necessarily correlate with ability. I have worked with former MiLB "legends," and I don't take a backseat to any of them. I've seen plenty of D1 umpires who flat-out suck! So what, this guy worked in the minors, and currently works D1. I am not impressed by those credentials alone. I'm not that easily impressed I guess.

I chose not to pursue any such career, by a conscious choice, not because of any inability to do the job. Please get that though your head.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Sorry Garth, but neither does what level of ball you've worked necessarily correlate with ability. I have worked with former MiLB "legends," and I don't take a backseat to any of them. I've seen plenty of D1 umpires who flat-out suck! So what, this guy worked in the minors, and currently works D1. I am not impressed by those credentials alone. I'm not that easily impressed I guess.

I chose not to pursue any such career, by a conscious choice, not because of any inability to do the job. Please get that though your head.

Those who can, do. Those who cannot, claim they could if only.........

What level are you working these days, Stevie?