Partners "stepping in" to your discussion...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

rei:

All of could say "Never happened, won't happen" but most of us assumed you wanted a "what if" answer and cooperated.

As you may have observed, Stevie either doesn't understand the purpose of a hypothetical question or is choosing not to answer it.

No Garth, I already answered the question in a prior post. Regardless of the "Statoos" of the umpire who cut in, I would have a talk after the game with the individual, as it is not proper to step on a veteran umpire in such a situation. Hell, even when I was a rook I knew how to handle my business, as I was taught by pro school grads from Day One.

And you don't have permission to refer to me as Stevie, so knock it the F off.

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I will likely not be in this situation. We work with regular partners (I have 25 HS and college dates with one guy and 10 dates with another guy -- both close friends) and I don't aspire to be more than a better official at my current level.

But I do know where you're coming from, as I've moved about 5 times before settling in here in my current, snow-covered location. And I've had partners act like I've never umpired before even though I could tell in minutes that I'd be carrying them in rough moments even though they were the ones politically connected.

All you can do is let your umpiring speak for itself and not make life difficult for yourself while you're climbing the ladder. If a partner got in the middle during an argument at a level I didn't work often or was working towards, I'd likely let it go and figure out why he did it after the game.

I'll be honest, I know I did it myself once or twice last season -- I jumped in when an inexperienced partner was clearly overmatched. But I'm the assignor/UIC of the league, so I wasn't (at the time) interested in watching my partner suffer -- I needed the umpire to stay in the league and fill slots and learn without getting thrown to the wolves. I don't believe you necessarily learn how to swim best by getting thrown into a tank full of piranhas, either.

I appreciate your comments, and support.

I too have cut in on a inexperienced partner when a bully was on him, for the good of the game you know!

I think that there are times when you are dealing with somebody who probably will not go to the next level, but has the ear of a lot of people who are at that level. Like it or not, you have to go through some people who are not exactly the most effacing umpires who look for opportunities to be officious. I suppose that says a lot about why they didn't achieve that next level.

I can think of some D1 non-conference umpires who are technically a lot better than some conference umpires, but lack the same easy going way about them, and don't seem to show a lot of care to the guys that are trying to move up.

Personally, I really like working with and helping guys on the way up. They constantly remind me that I have to look for ways to improve every game! Some of my favorite people to work with who have achieved a level higher than I am doing are more than willing to let me make my own mistakes, as it should be! They wait to give feedback about what I did wrong for when I ask for it. Sometimes, they give me things I have never thought of.

It is guys that are doing the higher level who are officious that bug me the most. Gawd help me if I ever become officious!

I just posted all of this because not only have I experienced some D1 guys who "cut in" on stuff that they should stay out of, but have seen a lot of footage where it has happened. It is like these guys are looking to get into the middle of the conflict! A college coach actually stated displeasure about another umpire, BY NAME to me, who was calling a lot of attention to himself in various ways. It was interesting to hear about, and frankly, I agreed with him, but of course got out of that conversation as gracefully and quickly as I could! ("Hey coach, is that hot dog stand over there open? I sure am hungry! ).

Maybe "red a$$" is getting a little carried away at the D1 level?

Do most threads here turn into in-fighting by the second page usually?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rei

Do most threads here turn into in-fighting by the second page usually?

Only when Larry, Shep and Moe are on-line.......

Soooooooo..........ever seen a rising gyroball?

[lawump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I don't care if God himself comes down and gets in the middle of my argument

He won't. As far as I know, Doug Harvey is still retired.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by rei

Do most threads here turn into in-fighting by the second page usually?

Only in certain circumstances, to wit:

a. When the subject involves umpiring;
b. When the subject involves something other than umpiring.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by rei

Do most threads here turn into in-fighting by the second page usually?

"UNDER" is usually a safe bet.

Originally Posted by LMan

Only in certain circumstances, to wit:

a. When the subject involves umpiring;
b. When the subject involves something other than umpiring.

Good to know!

Originally Posted by BigTex

"UNDER" is usually a safe bet.

I'll keep that in mind next time!

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Soooooooo..........ever seen a rising gyroball?

No, but my mojo rises watching Jennie Finch gyro her hips!

[PeteBooth]

The aforementioned is a Life question as well. In other words are you willing to "swallow your pride" for the sake of advancement.

Also, is umpiring your profession as opposed to a hobby. This might sound "off base" (no pun inteneded) but umpiring should be fun. One gets enough stress at work and if your working with "top dogs" who make you feel uncomfortable then it's up to the individual to determine if you are going to "take it" or say something.

Advancing through the umpiring ranks in a way is no different than advancing in the sport itself. Managers often leave some young pitcher's in the game simply to see how much guts they have or whether or not they can work their way through it. They want to find this out before the playoffs begin etc. if every-time a young pitcher got in trouble he was replaced, it would make that pitcher's life more difficult to succeed because he was never given the chance.

Same is true when umpiring. You need to learn how to handle cerrtain situations and you will not find the answers in some book. You will learn through experiences and if someone is constantly "stepping in" for you he is doing you an injustice because you will not learn that way.

I fully understand a veteran umpire "stepping in" if he has given you a chance to talk to the coach but now the conversation is dragging, getting very heated and going no-where. It's now time to step in and get the game moving.

There is a reason for a POST game evaluation and the reason is to critique your performance so that you as an umpire can improve. Sometimes "Top Dogs" do not want to critique etc. because they are afraid (especially if the umpire they are critiquing is talented) they will be replaced as top dog.

The answer lies in ones goals and if you truly want to get to "that level" then you do whatever it takes.

Pete Booth

I had a long discussion with another umpire who is at that next level today about this scenario. He had an interesting take on it. He said "Hey, if the guy is crazy enough to step into your discussion, let him have it. Peel away and go to your position".

There was a little more to it than that, but that was the essense of the talk. Pete, he also more or less affirmed what you were saying about how you just have to sort of "take it" sometimes.

Personally, I don't think at the college level that anybody "needs" protection from a partner. If an umpire has made it to that level, they have usually shown the ability to handle coaches fairly well eh?

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by rei

Ever have it happen? .......

No. Since I am UIC for my assoc., I advise Junior Umpires that are being observed during games or that are doing games with me of incorrect calls or interp's. Even then, it is away from others no one else can hear or read what's happening and I always advise the Junior that it is HIS call start to finish no matter which way it goes.

I have never been set upon by another more Senior Umpire during a game. If I had, I would probably consider what he's saying at least for reference. If he tried to change my call, I would advise him to back away and I would change the call if the sitch warranted it.

Then i would tell the scheduler to never put me with that AW again.

That being said, I've only been at this Officiating thing for 12 years.

[David B]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Discuss this before the game. Then you know what the expectations are during a blow up. I have no problem with my partner being in the area if a discussion is going on too long or they are there to get other participants out of the discussion. I do not think there is a one-size fits all point of view. But I would discuss this because you will have a debate on some level.

Peace

I agree totally. Just as important to all of the other pregame, I always make it a point to cover problems.

If we have a problem with a coach ...

But bottom line is that "he made the call" go with it.

Now if my partner wants to discuss something with me that's different.

However, as someone said, never allow a double team. If my partner is discussing, then I'm managing the rest of the field.

thanks
David

[Durham]

Originally Posted by rei

I had a long discussion with another umpire who is at that next level today about this scenario. He had an interesting take on it. He said "Hey, if the guy is crazy enough to step into your discussion, let him have it. Peel away and go to your position".

There was a little more to it than that, but that was the essense of the talk. Pete, he also more or less affirmed what you were saying about how you just have to sort of "take it" sometimes.

Personally, I don't think at the college level that anybody "needs" protection from a partner. If an umpire has made it to that level, they have usually shown the ability to handle coaches fairly well eh?

Well, I have been on the field many times where the coaches might of needed protection from my partner.

In all seriousness, I can only remeber two times where I stepped in a cut off a partner. Both were last year, one was DI the other was JC. So read and then let me have it.

The first one happened after a partner was MFing Pat Casey and ejected him. He kept MFing him and at one point when I was trying to get between them, I told my partner to go to the Fing outfield. I even called Pat's 1st base coach over to grab Pat and get him out of there.

The 2nd happened as my partner called a double play to end the inning that he got right. The dugout popped off and he started dropping the F-Bomb on them from the middle of the diamond as he was running towards the dugout. It was a JC game and my partner had just finished his 1st year of Pro ball. The way he was handling the situation wasn't going to help him accomplish anything, so I stepped in and defelected the heat. There was an ejection, but my actions helped him calm down and the situation was handled well after my short comment to the dugout.
After the game he thanked me for helping him from making a bad situation worse. We talked about how to handle those situations and he used some of it in his second year of pro ball and got promoted.

What do you do when you see a partner headed down the wrong road?