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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:19pm
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Posts: 477
Past Quote from you

Originally Posted by rei
I should add that when I am working with a somewhat "weak" partner who I may or may not trust to make the right call, I cover check swings in my pre-game with them, and tell them how I want it called! I explain that they can call it any way they want with other partners, but would prefer for this game for them to call it the way I do. This sort of get's around the problem of them thinking that somebody else's interpretation is the proper one. (sounds like only yours is)

And now your new "kinder & Gentler" position?

Originally Posted by rei
Every other sport I have worked, it is quite acceptable for a senior official, who is the crew chief that day, to advise to his crew on that day how he would like certain actions to be judged and called for that game.
I have been around for a few years, been a crew chief for 'that day', and have conducted meetings with my crew to talk about how we will handle situations (especially if we haven't worked together) BUT I have never "told" nor been told how to judge a check swing. I know that by the time you reach D1 ball, assuming that's the level you work since you mentioned the PAC 10, that even the less experienced umpires are capable of judging a check swing on their own.

Originally Posted by rei
I have never had a partner become offended by this practice in baseball. No feedback has ever gotten back to me via the "long way around" about this practice. On the contrary, most of my "weaker" partners have expressed gracious statements for sharing this "gem" with them, and after the game told me how much more confident they were in making a check swing determination!
How you present your suggestions/feedback makes all the difference in the world. If you offer 'advice', rather than demand, you'll find most people willing to accept what you have to say. Not just in baseball but in all areas of life.

Originally Posted by rei
If you are an old hat, unless you specifically asked me about this, I would certainly not cover it in a pre-game. If you did ask me about this, I would explain how I would determine it and leave it up to you to decide if you feel comfortable with that or not. But with newer, "weaker" officials, I am expected to take on a leadership role, and will do so!
Now this I agree with (bet that makes your day )

Originally Posted by rei
I can certainly understand how somebody might take offense to perceived officious approach I have described above. But from a personal standpoint, I realize that to become a better official, I must be willing to seek out all points of view, and accept them in principle, even if I don't care for the approach displayed in offering it!
Again, the method and manner of your deliverly makes the difference in how it it taken.
  #47 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:22pm
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 6,724
Originally Posted by GarthB
1. The method advocated by rei has been taught at several NCAA level camps I have attended. You may think that it "sucks" if you'd like, but it is one that is used by many at that level. The method I learned from Evans was to judge by the motion of the body, not the bat. I'm sure that "sucks", too.

2. I know rei. I know he has not exaggerated the level of ball he works.

3. I am highly amused reading posts attempting to correct or educate rei written by some who have not and will not reach the level he works.

4. I am equally amused by some who have posted elsewhere, "If I go to my partner right away, he gives me what he has, but if I hesitate or repeat my call, he damn well better give me what I have"; but now insist they would never expect a certain response.

5. Welcome aboard, rei.
1. This is probably a good rule of thumb at the NCAA level, but one would think that there were no "weak" umpires for him to need to instruct at that level. It sounded like he was referring to lower-level games, and giving this advice. At any other level besides NCAA, his advice sucks.

2. Yeah, you know everybody. Nobody cares.

3. If my association of 20 years had continued to work college ball after the 1993 season, I would have worked college ball too, as I was slated to do so. Our association, to whom I was extremely loyal, lost the college contracts to a rival group, so our upper-tier baseball became HS Varsity, which I have been working regularly since 1987. I have 21 solid years of experience, not one year experience 21 times. That makes me qualified to comment on other people's advice.

4. Those people amuse me as well.

5. Unlike you Garth, I extend a hearty welcome to all, regardless of whether or not they agree with my position, or have the same level of experience.
Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25
  #48 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:41pm
Posts: n/a
Well, I look forward to other threads where maybe we can all find common ground to discuss umpiring. But in this thread, I think I have ran out of ways to constructively discuss this topic with some, and think it might be time to move on to other pressing issues in umpiring amateur games!

Last edited by rei; Wed Feb 21, 2007 at 12:43pm.
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