Rules We Don't Like

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Justme

The umpires weren't fighting. After the first ump got run over they just stood back and watched (as I would have done).

I'm glad that I have a better memory then you and, as the PU, have a pencil to write with & paper to write on.

Sure they can fight and I can sit and watch from the sidelines. What preventive measures are in place to stop other situations like this from occuring in the first place? I do not want this to turn into another blame the ump for allowing it to happen campaign because I know he wasn't responsible. Are we as a society going to continue to allow our athletes to get away with murder?

What happens to the lunatics who began this mess? What about the other lunatics running after each other for NO apparent reason? Are they going to face criminal assualt charges? If management continues to list names of these lunatics on their playing roster, are they also going to face possible civil liability issues as employers? I would like to know that one "out of control" HC was made aware of his responsibilities within the organization. If the word doesn't get out, why write anything down?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by SAump

Sure they can fight and I can sit and watch from the sidelines. What preventive measures are in place to stop other situations like this from occuring in the first place? I do not want this to turn into another blame the ump for allowing it to happen campaign because I know he wasn't responsible. Are we as a society going to continue to allow our athletes to get away with murder?

Preventive measures? You mean like having armed guards & shooting the first SOB to throw a punch? How do you suggest that it be handled?

Originally Posted by SAump

What happens to the lunatics who began this mess? What about the other lunatics running after each other for NO apparent reason?

Lunatics? That's a little rough isn't it? I'm sure that there will be some league punishment like fines (if pro) or suspensions (or both) but it is unlikely that we'll be able to know what it was.

Originally Posted by SAump

Are they going to face criminal assualt charges?

Criminal assualt charges? There goes hockey. Maybe if someone used a bat as a weapon but not just for a bench clearing brawl.

Originally Posted by SAump

If management continues to list names of these lunatics on their playing roster, are they also going to face possible civil liability issues as employers?

There's the "L" word again.... Civil liability? Come on......just think insurance and let the law suits begin.

Originally Posted by SAump

I would like to know that one "out of control" HC was made aware of his responsibilities within the organization.

You can write and ask the HC's management, maybe they'll tell you. They haven't told me anything.

Originally Posted by SAump

If the word doesn't get out, why write anything down?

Why write anything down? There are always reports to be made, got to have paperwork, and if your memory is as bad as you said it was then you should write stuff down.

How would you get the word out?

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by SAump

Theads by Pete Booth (#10), greymule (#11), Justme (#13) and D-man (#19) all discuss the problems umpires have controlling bad behavior in the modern game.

There is an interesting collection of videos on Youtube covering a serious fight between the Flyers and Tbones. I strongly suggest that YOU watch the short videos documenting the event.

Video 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tiYuY8zAx6c
Video 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8n7P9vUQz...elated&search=
Vidoe 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jdbdeYT1V...elated&search=

Video 4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3R-k3xWEF...elated&search=

Not much anyone could do before all hell broke loose. I applaud the Tbone manager for trying to take control of his players and returning them back to the dugout after things began to settle down.

The video that hit home was when the Flyers HC blamed the ump immediately AFTER the fight had taken place and the UMPIRE'S strong reaction against the charge. I also note that the Flyers HC didn't do **** himself before that fiasco took place. I strongly encourage umpires to use it as a "training" topic with young umpires.

It would be interesting to know what penalties were handed out.

What is the realistic expectation of the UIC here? Remember, this is a professional baseball game being played by grown men.

The plate ump did exactly what he was supposed to do, issue a warning. It's hard to tell how much bad blood there was between these two teams before the game began. Is that UIC's fault as well? No.

If this were a FED game, many of us would take care of it by giving an early gate (I think), but this level of baseball is much different. These men (and I use that term loosely) are supposed to know and abide by the unwritten rules concerning "showing up" their opponent and playing the game "the right way."

Sometimes things get out of control in competitive sports. At the professional level, it's the job of the club and league offices to control these jerks. The umpires are there to call the game, not teach proper behavior. But at the HS level, many upires are required to teach as well because maybe the coaches don't know any better.

[DG]

[QUOTE=ctblu40]What is the realistic expectation of the UIC here? Remember, this is a professional baseball game being played by grown men.

The plate ump did exactly what he was supposed to do, issue a warning. /QUOTE]I have never worked a pro game, but in all games I have worked it is reasonable for the UIC to put a stop to the batter and catcher having a long heated discussion as appears happened here. And he should not allow an on deck batter to enter the area of the batter's box for any reason. The warning came one pitch too late. If the discussion between the catcher and batter was as heated as it looked then he shouldn't just stand there with his hands on his hips.

I'm not throwing the guy under the bus, but some preventive umpiring might have helped, or maybe not.

[MadCityRef]

Originally Posted by DG

How about awarding bases because the pitcher fielded a sacrifice bunt with a glove that had a tiny bit of white on it, like the white around the Rawlings logo?

That rule is specifically aimed at Rawlings. Wilson is a NFHS sponsor and Rawlings is their main competition. Pitiful.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by DG

I have never worked a pro game, but in all games I have worked it is reasonable for the UIC to put a stop to the batter and catcher having a long heated discussion as appears happened here. And he should not allow an on deck batter to enter the area of the batter's box for any reason. The warning came one pitch too late. If the discussion between the catcher and batter was as heated as it looked then he shouldn't just stand there with his hands on his hips.

I'm not throwing the guy under the bus, but some preventive umpiring might have helped, or maybe not.

I agree 100%. WTF was that guy doing just letting them jabber on for an extended period of time? Then the on-deck batters walk up around home and the PU doesn't blink an eye! I was astonished to see his lack of presence to stop the situation before it started. The jabbering btw the batter and catcher should have been halted and the on-deck batters should be in the on-deck circle where they belong.

[Tim C]

"That rule is specifically aimed at Rawlings. Wilson is a NFHS sponsor and Rawlings is their main competition. Pitiful."

This ties for the dumbest post ever made on the internet.

Regards,

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

That rule is specifically aimed at Rawlings. Wilson is a NFHS sponsor and Rawlings is their main competition. Pitiful.

Really? Rawlings is a sponsor, too -- the glove is shown on the back of the rules book, iirc.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

That rule is specifically aimed at Rawlings. Wilson is a NFHS sponsor and Rawlings is their main competition. Pitiful.

My 2005 NFHS rule book has an advertisement on the back cover for the Rawlings Liquidmetal 2 baseball bat.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

Cut me a break. I may have stumbled onto a FED/NCAA rule that makes absolutely NO sense. This includes the FED flop over the interpretation of a caught FOUL fly ball. The PENALTY to Rule 6-2-2c Exception is absolutely the strangest one I have ever read.

What purpose would imposing a BALL on a pitcher for tossing an extra baseball during suspended play serve? Would it actually shorten the game? Would it provide a sense of fairness or safety to the leadoff batter who lazily strolls to the plate after taking lengthy signals from base coach? Upon the pitcher's EJECTION in FED ball, doesn't the relief pitcher get an additional unlimited number of pitches? Somebody slap me. Tell me the rationale behind this hummer.

I don't believe you are reading the Exception correctly. It does not say that the penalty for extra warm up pitches is a called "Ball." In fact, it does not list a penalty at all, rather it is an exception from a penalty as in 6-2-2c, which states that the pitcher must pitch or attempt a play within 20 seconds of receiving the ball. They list an exception to point out that they mean after each pitch, a 20 second count starts, but does not pertain to warm up pitches. In fact, the umpire can authorize more pitches in case of weather conditions or injury.

The umpire is just supposed to tell the catcher that the pitcher's warm ups are done, but there is no penalty for taking an extra one, except that it usually wrankles the umpire a bit.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Justme

Preventive measures? You mean like having armed guards & shooting the first SOB to throw a punch? How do you suggest that it be handled?

Very good suggestion. Awareness classes, field security armed with video equipment. The SOB has to know he will be shot. Can't depend on the networks to carry MiLB or the quality of a spectator's NCAA/HS Fancam.

Originally Posted by Justme

Lunatics? That's a little rough isn't it? I'm sure that there will be some league punishment like fines (if pro) or suspensions (or both) but it is unlikely that we'll be able to know what it was.

I agree and apologize to the lunatics, hooligan is a more appropriate term.

Originally Posted by Justme

Criminal assualt charges? There goes hockey. Maybe if someone used a bat as a weapon but not just for a bench clearing brawl.

Yep, misdemeanor charges of disorderly conduct, assault, or aggravated assualt should put a stop to these shenanagans. Sentenced to a court work program, anger management classes and community service costs.

Originally Posted by Justme

There's the "L" word again.... Civil liability? Come on......just think insurance and let the law suits begin. You can write and ask the HC's management, maybe they'll tell you. They haven't told me anything.

A lawyer's ad said, "The insurance company has gotta know who it's dealing with." It certainly isn't the victim.

Originally Posted by Justme

Why write anything down? There are always reports to be made, got to have paperwork, and if your memory is as bad as you said it was then you should write stuff down.

Ball Game works well for me. The suggestion of fans walking away should work for the OWNERS.