Rules We Don't Like

[Anonymous67]

Originally Posted by Jim Mills

That's the standard m.o. around here, too. By "sponsorship", I didn't mean to imply "financial support", or equal footing with a varsity program concerning facilities. It meant only that the school has to recognize the club and provide a faculty sponsor in order for it to be sanctioned by the NCBA. I'm not expert in the organization's operations, but I think it's to help ensure that only full-time, currently enrolled students are on the roster.

From a management study standpoint, it's a fascinating organization. It was started in the mid-90's by a Penn State student who got cut during varsity tryouts. In ten years it's grown to nearly 150 teams and 25 conferences across the country, complete with a national tournament culminating in an eight-team national championship series on Memorial Day weekend. They'll play it at the Red Sox's minor league park in Florida in 2007.

Not bad for a college kid who just wanted to keep playing.

In some areas, where colleges have eliminated baseball to help satisfy Title IX, club ball is the only opportunity for students to play.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SAump

Rule: Fair batted ball or thrown ball lodges in defensive player's or umpire's uniform or equipment.

Penalty: Two base award (batter and runners) at time of pitch.

Just wondering about the rationale for awarding two bases for a very unlikely occurrence. Far more serious occurrences/incidents/infractions award only one base. Most B/R's would not attempt that extra base and I doubt many of those who did would be succesful. A one base award seems sufficient for a baseball lodging inside one's clothing. Can anyone justify any other reason than the current rule for awarding two bases?

I agree. I like the WUA interpretation found in the MLBUM. It seems more fair.


8-21-03 @ WUA Site — When a live ball enters a player's uniform or the catcher's gear, the ball is to be ruled dead and no subsequent outs can be obtained by the defense. The umpire is then directed to employ common sense and fairness and place the runners such that the act of the ball becoming dead is nullified. The umpire may not, however, enforce any outs that he thinks may have occurred had the ball remained live. Outs occurring before the ball went out of play stand.

The new interpretation goes on to emphasize that a ball stuck in a fielder's glove is not to be considered out of play; the ball remains live. It is legal for one fielder to throw the glove with a live ball stuck in it to another fielder. A fielder who possesses the ball/glove combination in his own hand or glove can complete a tag of a runner or base, just as if he were holding only the
ball.


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I agree. I like the WUA interpretation found in the MLBUM. It seems more fair.

That's also the NCAA interp.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by SAump

Theads by Pete Booth (#10), greymule (#11), Justme (#13) and D-man (#19) all discuss the problems umpires have controlling bad behavior in the modern game.

There is an interesting collection of videos on Youtube covering a serious fight between the Flyers and Tbones. I strongly suggest that YOU watch the short videos documenting the event.

Video 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tiYuY8zAx6c
Video 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8n7P9vUQz...elated&search=
Vidoe 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jdbdeYT1V...elated&search=

Video 4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3R-k3xWEF...elated&search=

Not much anyone could do before all hell broke loose. I applaud the Tbone manager for trying to take control of his players and returning them back to the dugout after things began to settle down.

The video that hit home was when the Flyers HC blamed the ump immediately AFTER the fight had taken place and the UMPIRE'S strong reaction against the charge. I also note that the Flyers HC didn't do **** himself before that fiasco took place. I strongly encourage umpires to use it as a "training" topic with young umpires.

It would be interesting to know what penalties were handed out.

The question is.... who gets ejected in this? Just the guys that started the fight or what?

In FED anyone that leaves their posisiton to go fight is ejected, so since both benches cleared, is everyone ejected and the game thrown out?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by SAump

Theads by Pete Booth (#10), greymule (#11), Justme (#13) and D-man (#19) all discuss the problems umpires have controlling bad behavior in the modern game.

There is an interesting collection of videos on Youtube covering a serious fight between the Flyers and Tbones. I strongly suggest that YOU watch the short videos documenting the event.

Video 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tiYuY8zAx6c
Video 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8n7P9vUQz...elated&search=
Vidoe 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jdbdeYT1V...elated&search=

Video 4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3R-k3xWEF...elated&search=

Not much anyone could do before all hell broke loose. I applaud the Tbone manager for trying to take control of his players and returning them back to the dugout after things began to settle down.

The video that hit home was when the Flyers HC blamed the ump immediately AFTER the fight had taken place and the UMPIRE'S strong reaction against the charge. I also note that the Flyers HC didn't do **** himself before that fiasco took place. I strongly encourage umpires to use it as a "training" topic with young umpires.

It would be interesting to know what penalties were handed out.

It is unlikely that the majority of umpires on this board will ever experience anything like this. In this situation I would do just what these guys did, stand back and watch the action while writing down numbers of the players starting the fight.

[greymule]

Good videos, but the whole thing is quite depressing to watch. It smacks so much of the drunken over-the-hill hotheads in slow-pitch softball—the kind of crap that impels townships to discontinue leagues.

The tough guy has seen the big leaguers shove cameramen, so he figures that he has to do it, too.

I certainly hope there are consequences.

I've traveled to Schaumburg many times. Never knew the place to have a minor league team, but maybe they do. If Schaumburg is playing Kansas City, it's hard to believe it's some semi-pro league. On one of my trips, I stopped in St. Charles, Illinois, not too far from Schaumburg, to see their minor league team. One dollar to park.

[greymule]

I had you living near Princeton, in NJ.

Correct. Since 1954. Lived one block from Einstein until he died in 1955.

Yep. Me and Al had some good times.

From 1984 to 1995 I traveled the country for AT&T and a bunch of other companies. Put at least half a million miles on my frequent flyer cards.

Today my only travel is to umpire. I now do all my work in my home office and am quite thankful I don't have to fly anywhere. I'm sure I would be hauled away in handcuffs for having a belt buckle or chapstick that could be used as a weapon or for some similar violation.

I plan to move to Alabama or Georgia when my obligations here are over. As has been mentioned often on this site, New Jersey is run by idiots. Our ultra-rich airhead governor is now set to commute the sentences of all the murderers on the state's death row, including the monster who raped and murdered little Megan Kanka (cf. Megan's Law) and then dumped her corpse in the woods.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by greymule

I had you living near Princeton, in NJ.

I deleted my original comment after confirming the very same info moments later in the "flag placement" thread. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Speaking of airplanes, I am also reminded of turbulent flow around them, the rising fastball discussions, and your conversation with Mr. Reynolds.

How does a 400 mph, 150 ton airliner undergo unexplained "rising actions" in middle of horizontal or downward flight? Boundary layer turbulent flow may explain both the fluttering action of a knuckleball and the necessary lift component of a rising fastball. But then again, a round white cowhide doesn't have red threaded wings attached to it, either. Of course it would be easier to prove if someone could throw a rising fastball.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Justme

It is unlikely that the majority of umpires on this board will ever experience anything like this.

True, but I would hope the ONE umpire who has this kind of crap on his resume is not negatively affected by it. Preventive game management is something we can all think about and work on. I feel the PU was unfairly criticized by HC at the most inappropriate time. To top it off, I did not see one security or administrative official interject throughout the entire melee. Why is it the Umpire is only held to such a high standard as Pete Booth suggested in thread #10?

Originally Posted by Justme

In this situation I would do just what these guys did, stand back and watch the action while writing down numbers of the players starting the fight.

Gee, they could write a book. I am not a writer and I don't carry a tape recorder or camera and when I get into a fight I don't really remember anything that happens other than the overall picture. I can't even remember faces, facts and words that may help me explain inappropriate actions by all of the idiots who may be involved. The details were lost in the melee and at the end the melee gets dumped on the UMP.

[DG]

Never seen anything like this. Game is over in FED, because everybody that fought or left the bench to fight is gone.

From video 4 it looks like the batter and the catcher are having words before the next pitch that went behind his back. This is confirmed by catcher's comments in video 2. If ump had gotten between the two when they were having words and put a stop to that this might not have happened. And the ball headed guy that came up to the plate with no helment on while they were talking should have been dealt with also.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SAump

Rule: Fair batted ball or thrown ball lodges in defensive player's or umpire's uniform or equipment.

Penalty: Two base award (batter and runners) at time of pitch.

Just wondering about the rationale for awarding two bases for a very unlikely occurrence. Far more serious occurrences/incidents/infractions award only one base. Most B/R's would not attempt that extra base and I doubt many of those who did would be succesful. A one base award seems sufficient for a baseball lodging inside one's clothing. Can anyone justify any other reason than the current rule for awarding two bases?

I just read another rule I don't like dealing with a lodged ball, but I am not talking. Whatever rationale is provided for this particular situation has to be as weak as the thrown bat award allowing batter to keep his meaningless base hit, followed by the immediate ejection penalty for sending a person to the hospital. In fact, I may handle the situation the very same way. OOPS.

[DG]

How about awarding bases because the pitcher fielded a sacrifice bunt with a glove that had a tiny bit of white on it, like the white around the Rawlings logo?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by DG

Never seen anything like this. Game is over in FED, because everybody that fought or left the bench to fight is gone.

So would the game be totally thrown out and replayed or treated like a game that got rained out and is able to be resumed?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by SAump

Gee, they could write a book. I am not a writer and I don't carry a tape recorder or camera and when I get into a fight I don't really remember anything that happens other than the overall picture.

The umpires weren't fighting. After the first ump got run over they just stood back and watched (as I would have done).

Originally Posted by SAump

I can't even remember faces, facts and words that may help me explain inappropriate actions by all of the idiots who may be involved. The details were lost in the melee and at the end the melee gets dumped on the UMP.

I'm glad that I have a better memory then you and, as the PU, have a pencil to write with & paper to write on.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bossman72

So would the game be totally thrown out and replayed or treated like a game that got rained out and is able to be resumed?

I expect the state would put an end to both team's seasons, and the coaching staffs should lose their coaching jobs for not providing the necessary leadership to prevent such a thing from happening. In a FED game the PU shouldn't let the catcher and batter jaw at each other and shouldn't allow the on deck batter anywhere near the plate with a batter in the box, and should issue a team warning for not having a helmet on.