Rules We Don't Like

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by DG

I don't understand why any rule set would allow a runner to maliciously contact a catcher.

I suppose I can see it still being allowed at the professional level as a matter of tradition. But for any level lower than that, especially with teenagers still in school, no way.


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I suppose I can see it still being allowed at the professional level as a matter of tradition. But for any level lower than that, especially with teenagers still in school, no way.


Tim.

The NCAA seems reasonable, agressive contact to reach the base is allowed, malicious contact with malicous purpose is not. With the salaries paid today I don't understand why ML owners are not oppossed to MC on their expensive catchers.

[D-Man]

I think they should be able to bring weapons on the field.

Back in the day they could police themselves. You crash my catcher, I'll put one in your ear. Tony C. was a pussy.

I hate the tobacco rule. What's better than swallowing a nice plug o' Red Man while taking one for the team...

While you're at it, make 'em all wear wool in the summer. Didn't have the new fangled Under Armour in my day.

Yeah, those were better times!

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I don't understand why either of you would preferr to see a runner allowed to crash the catcher or make contact on the pivot man at second in a high school game. These are young men playing and should be afforded the protection that the FPSR rule provides.


Tim.

Because it's baseball, not golf. And I never said anything about malicious contact, malicious contact has no place anywhere in baseball. I like the college rules for contact much better.

Remember, the title of this topic, Rules you don't like.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

Because it's baseball, not golf. And I never said anything about malicious contact, malicious contact has no place anywhere in baseball. I like the college rules for contact much better.

Remember, the title of this topic, Rules you don't like.

Would you have the FPSR ammended to model NCAA, which appears even more stringent?


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Would you have the FPSR amended to model NCAA, which appears even more stringent?


Tim.

etn_ump stole my thunder. The name of this category is "Rules We Don't Like," not "Let's Argue About Your Choices Of Rules You Don't Like."

Let us just list the rules we don't like, and not give us a ration of crap about it. We did not ask to debate the subject, just to give our opinions.

And I don't think tradition itself is the reason the MLB allows crashing the catcher. So did a lot of leagues that I played catcher in, and I welcomed the baserunner to try to knock the ball out of my hands. It's part of BASEBALL. There were no "slide or avoid" or "no canning the catcher" rules when I was playing ball (which I did until I was 30), and I don't remember any serious injuries directly attributed to collisions. Like etn_ump said, the keystoners and catchers knew how to play the game.

We played football in the street, got all skinned up, and slammed into cars all the time. It was just a tougher world back then I guess, without all the lawsuit-crazy parents we have today.

You can still have rules against Malicious Contact, without having a rule such as the FPSR. Long before this rule came about, there were FED rules in place that protected against Malicious Contact, and everything worked out just fine.

[DG]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

Because it's baseball, not golf. And I never said anything about malicious contact, malicious contact has no place anywhere in baseball. I like the college rules for contact much better.

Remember, the title of this topic, Rules you don't like.

You said "players not being able to break up a double play or roll the catcher". What did you mean by "roll the catcher"? I took that to mean maliciously, since you are allowed a hard legal slide into the catcher.

There are more violent sports than MLB. NFL and NHL come to mind, but there are malicious actions that will get you ejected, fined and suspended and many more unsportsmanlike stuff that will get penalties. Why MLB still allows one of the team's most important investments to get crashed malicously is beyond me.

[MadCityRef]

NCAA has altered the FPSR for '07 so the runner can slide through the bag, because so many couldn't stop.
NFHS is all about player safety because most players are not as talented as the few who will play at the next level.
I think the on-deck batter in his circle is a POE in 07 for NFHS. This is not enforced enough. It saves what, 5 seconds? It comes from the LL and BRuth ball trying to speed up the game. (Call more strikes.) This is another liability issue we need to clean up. If the player is not where he is supposed to be, and we allow it to happen, then we are on the hook. It sucks for us, but we gotta do it.

A rule I'd change is the batter intentionally getting HBP on a 3-ball count. (I must be a magnet for it.) There's no penalty, but there should be. Stay in the box or call him out. But try and sell that one for an out.
The worst call I hate making is the interference on the FPSR. No one is watching as they follow the ball. Had one coach tell me, "We'll be looking very close at your calls at second from now on." Oh, please.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Jim Mills

Right you are. The National Club Baseball Association, which consists of university-sponsored extramural club teams playing under NCAA eligibility rules and modified NCAA playing rules, has a malicious contact rule that is defined (contact with the head or neck is malicious by rule; no umpire judgment beyond whether such contact occurred is required), and they have no FPSR. Au contraire, they specifically allow for aggressive contact to break up a potential double play, or a tag play at the plate. They also do not prohibit tobacco.

Among the several which I am paid to work, it is by far the most pleasurable rules set to administer.

Sounds like my kind of league!

[DG]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

A rule I'd change is the batter intentionally getting HBP on a 3-ball count. (I must be a magnet for it.) There's no penalty, but there should be. Stay in the box or call him out. But try and sell that one for an out.
The worst call I hate making is the interference on the FPSR. No one is watching as they follow the ball. Had one coach tell me, "We'll be looking very close at your calls at second from now on." Oh, please.

No sale on (getting an out) getting hit by a 4th ball. That's just stupid on the batter's part.

Under OBR it's not normally interference, but under NCAA and NFHS it's a rule expected to be called, so I have no problem calling it. As BU it's not my first responsibililty but I know PU will be watching for this per our pre-game.

[cccsdad]

Originally Posted by greymule

We recently discussed Fed rules that many of us do not like. But what can we do about it?

I see that some guy in California just set a Christmas tree, an American flag, and himself on fire out of outrage toward the local school district, which had voted to rename "winter" and "spring" vacations back to "Christmas" and "Easter" vacations.

Do you think if enough of us set our rule books and case books, along with ourselves, on fire, we could effect some long-overdue changes? What if a bunch of us did this outside Fed headquarters?

It's Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.
Christian or not, how can it be bad to abide by the 10 commandments?
Is there something wrong with being honest, not cheating on your spouse, not stealing, not killing, honoring your parents, not bearing false witness, etc?

Heck all religion aside, those are some pretty solid principles to live by, aren't they?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

etn_ump stole my thunder. The name of this category is "Rules We Don't Like," not "Let's Argue About Your Choices Of Rules You Don't Like."

Let us just list the rules we don't like, and not give us a ration of crap about it. We did not ask to debate the subject, just to give our opinions.

And I don't think tradition itself is the reason the MLB allows crashing the catcher. So did a lot of leagues that I played catcher in, and I welcomed the baserunner to try to knock the ball out of my hands. It's part of BASEBALL. There were no "slide or avoid" or "no canning the catcher" rules when I was playing ball (which I did until I was 30), and I don't remember any serious injuries directly attributed to collisions. Like etn_ump said, the keystoners and catchers knew how to play the game.

We played football in the street, got all skinned up, and slammed into cars all the time. It was just a tougher world back then I guess, without all the lawsuit-crazy parents we have today.

You can still have rules against Malicious Contact, without having a rule such as the FPSR. Long before this rule came about, there were FED rules in place that protected against Malicious Contact, and everything worked out just fine.

Steve:


I wasn't giving you any crap about your opinions. This board would be pretty bland if we didn't discuss our positions on situations where we may or may not agree with each other. Perhaps it's because right now I have two sons playing under NFHS rules, one in the ICCL and one in high school that causes me to support limited contact rules such as the FPSR. Neither of my sons are wimps, but I don't want to have to see one of them have their knee taken out on a hard slide. I can't afford to be macho when it comes to my childrens safety.


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Jim Mills

Right you are. The National Club Baseball Association, which consists of university-sponsored extramural club teams playing under NCAA eligibility rules and modified NCAA playing rules, has a malicious contact rule that is defined (contact with the head or neck is malicious by rule; no umpire judgment beyond whether such contact occurred is required), and they have no FPSR. Au contraire, they specifically allow for aggressive contact to break up a potential double play, or a tag play at the plate. They also do not prohibit tobacco.

Among the several which I am paid to work, it is by far the most pleasurable rules set to administer.

The universtity may provides some sponsorship, but the the players pay to play and the teams around here have to pay for community owned field use instead of playing on the university field, even on weekends when it is not in use.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

BTW-I thought you were "Scooper" Steve at first base?

Indeed I was during my early youth, all the way through Thoroughbred (what is the equivalent of today's Palomino 17-18). After my stint in the Army, I played in adult leagues, including baseball, fast-pitch softball, and 3-pitch leagues, as well as good ol' fashioned pick-up "beer ball" games on Saturdays and Sundays year round. In these leagues, I loved to play catcher, and my teammates loved having me there because I loved to block the plate.

The only thing that stopped me from my insatiable appetite to play ball was my finding umpiring (as well as reffing bball and football), and involving myself in that 6 to 7 days a week instead. I lost the desire to continue to be a "rat" once I discovered the joy of arbitration.

And yes, I could pick it at 1st base with the best of them.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Jim Mills

That's the standard m.o. around here, too. By "sponsorship", I didn't mean to imply "financial support", or equal footing with a varsity program concerning facilities. It meant only that the school has to recognize the club and provide a faculty sponsor in order for it to be sanctioned by the NCBA. I'm not expert in the organization's operations, but I think it's to help ensure that only full-time, currently enrolled students are on the roster.

From a management study standpoint, it's a fascinating organization. It was started in the mid-90's by a Penn State student who got cut during varsity tryouts. In ten years it's grown to nearly 150 teams and 25 conferences across the country, complete with a national tournament culminating in an eight-team national championship series on Memorial Day weekend. They'll play it at the Red Sox's minor league park in Florida in 2007.

Not bad for a college kid who just wanted to keep playing.

I am very familiar with Club Ball. My son played for a club team at a DI school. I think the team may have gotten a little money from the school for baseballs, but the players paid to play and it was always a puzzle to me why the team had to rent fields elsewhere for games when the "real college team" was playing a weekend series away. If the university really supported the team the field would be theirs when not in use. I expect some of the regular fans would come out to watch, if they only knew the club team existed.

There were several very good players on the team but they had a LH pitcher who played CF when not pitching and when pitching he was always listed as DH for himself, so that when he left the mound, if he left the mound, he would stay in to bat. He was Club team all american and what I could not figure out is why he was not playing on the big team.

There were no faculty reps that I could see, but all the players were confirmed as full time students (12 hours or more) and the coaches were former players/graduates who probably wanted to become a college coach someday.