off season brain teaser

[greymule]

There is a way a pitcher could pitch a perfect game in mid-season with no changes in the batting averages of the opponents.

Leadoff guy takes ball 4, and the pitch gets away from F2 and rolls far away. BR makes it to 2B safely but is called out on appeal for missing 1B. The next 26 batters also take ball 4 and the same thing happens. So there would be 27 outs with no one reaching 1B safely, and because no one would be charged with an at bat, nobody's batting average would change.

The guys who have monkeys working at typewriters say that eventually such a game will be played.

In 1964, I saw the Baltimore Orioles score only 1 run against the Yankees on a single, a triple, and 3 more singles.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by DG

10.05(e) indicates that a fair ball striking a runner is scored a hit. Is this covered somewhere else in the rules?.

Key word in your statement, and the reason Tee has never read rule 10, is "scored."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

And he also goes to university. I'm sure he stops at the student centre from time to time, too. You are the Dick Tracy of the Internet.......

This information did not come from sleuthing, B. O. Plenty! It was just simple observation, which stemmed from reading the posts of both gentlemen.

BTW, how are Gravel Gertie and Sparkle doing lately? Well, I'm off to see my true love, Tess Trueheart. Later!

[DG]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Key word in your statement, and the reason Tee has never read rule 10, is "scored."

Yes, my point exactly. To know that a batted ball striking a runner is "scored" a hit (the 6th hit in Tee's scenario)is indication there is some knowledge of rule 10, even if he didn't read it as he readily admits. My point was he has some knowledge of rule 10, even though he may not have acquired this knowledge by reading the rule.

It really doesn't hurt to know a little bit about rule 10, even if you don't need it to officiate a game. For those of us who have been coaches in our past and also occassionaly an official scorer at tournaments we must know rule 10. Granted, I haven't needed it much since umpiring only, but still seems useful.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by greymule

There is a way a pitcher could pitch a perfect game in mid-season with no changes in the batting averages of the opponents.

Leadoff guy takes ball 4, and the pitch gets away from F2 and rolls far away. BR makes it to 2B safely but is called out on appeal for missing 1B. The next 26 batters also take ball 4 and the same thing happens. So there would be 27 outs with no one reaching 1B safely, and because no one would be charged with an at bat, nobody's batting average would change.

Would this still be scored as a perfect game?

[Tim C]

Always before if a player dropped a foul ball it was NEVER called an error until the batter finsihed his at bat -- if he made an out there was no error -- NOW a days they credit the rror immediately -- so if the "Able" hots a foul pop and is clearly erred by F3 -- next 27 hitters retired . . . is that a perfect game?

[SAump]

If I may tag on a question that I wanted to ask a scorekeeper.

Long ago, an error was never charged to a pitcher who didn't cleanly field a batted ball. However, F1 was awarded with an error if he proceeded to make a bad throw.

During the latest WS, a Tiger pitcher was charged with an error after he failed to cleanly field a bunted ball. I am certain the batter-runner would have preferred to have been credited with a base hit. Was this a correctly scored an "error" or the mistake of a certain well-known TV announcer?

The same situation happens frequently when a third baseman charges a good drag bunt and muffs the barehand pickup. It is most frequently scored a base hit because of the difficulty. Even if he makes the pick-up, he still has to throw the BR out.

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Would this still be scored as a perfect game?

Hey all,

It shouldn't be considered a perfect game since a perfect game does not allow for any walks.

LomUmp

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Would this still be scored as a perfect game?

No, just a no-hitter.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Always before if a player dropped a foul ball it was NEVER called an error until the batter finsihed his at bat -- if he made an out there was no error -- NOW a days they credit the rror immediately -- so if the "Able" hots a foul pop and is clearly erred by F3 -- next 27 hitters retired . . . is that a perfect game?

No, just a no-hitter. Perfect means perfect, as in no mistakes by the defense.

[greymule]

No, just a no-hitter. Perfect means perfect, as in no mistakes by the defense.

A perfect game is a game in which no batter reaches 1B safely. The following do not break up a perfect game:

1. Errors charged on dropped foul pops.
2. Apparent extra-base hits, including over-the-fence home runs, on which the BR is subsequently called out on appeal for missing 1B.
3. BR reaching 2B or beyond on an error, ball 4 passed ball, or ball 4 wild pitch, and then being called on out appeal for missing 1B.
4. Batter being HBP or being awarded 1B on ball 4 and then refusing to advance to 1B and being called out.

However, in case #2 and case #4 (and the "error" play in case #3), the batter is charged with an at bat.

As soon as a batter reaches 1B safely, the perfect game is over. Until then, it's a perfect game.

Always before if a player dropped a foul ball it was NEVER called an error until the batter finsihed his at bat -- if he made an out there was no error -- NOW a days they credit the rror immediately -- so if the "Able" hots a foul pop and is clearly erred by F3 -- next 27 hitters retired . . . is that a perfect game?

I'm 58. It's been an error as long as I can remember. No waiting to see what happens. If Abel hits a foul pop that F5 drops, and then hits a foul pop that F2 drops, and then hits a foul pop that F3 drops, and then strikes out. Score 3 errors and a strikeout. And if Dale Mitchell had done that on October 8, 1956, Don Larsen would still have been credited with a perfect game.

[DG]

Originally Posted by SAump

During the latest WS, a Tiger pitcher was charged with an error after he failed to cleanly field a bunted ball. I am certain the batter-runner would have preferred to have been credited with a base hit. Was this a correctly scored an "error" or the mistake of a certain well-known TV announcer?

The same situation happens frequently when a third baseman charges a good drag bunt and muffs the barehand pickup. It is most frequently scored a base hit because of the difficulty. Even if he makes the pick-up, he still has to throw the BR out.

E1 on F1 not fielding a bunt cleanly, if there was a good chance that fielding it cleanly would have resulted in an out (almost always the case for F1). Bunts fielded by F1 are often sacrifice bunts.

F5 muffing a bare handed attempt on a good drag bunt is often ruled a base hit because there was no chance at getting an out on a well placed bunt. There is no chance fielding it with glove so bare handed is the best chance and not often a good one. If there was a good chance, or he had time to glove it, but tried bare handed instead, then E5.

JMHO as a long ago scorer at a number of tournaments.

[Tim C]

PWL is correct . . . an error was NEVER creditied on a dropped foul if the batter was then retired.

And that is a fact.

Ooops, that maybe another Rule 10 comment.

T

[greymule]

Baseball stat guys have gone back and disavowed games that were one time no hitters or perfect games. The reason for this being that the game didn't go the requisite nine innings.

That's true, and there used to be a "perfect game" that Babe Ruth started where he walked the first batter and then got thrown out of the game. Ernie Shore relieved, the runner was thrown out stealing, and Shore then retired the next 26 batters. That game still appears on some lists of perfect games, but I believe it was (much later) officially declared not a perfect game.

But a dropped foul pop, whether or not scored an error, has no bearing on a perfect game.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Tim C

PWL is correct . . . an error was NEVER creditied on a dropped foul if the batter was then retired.

And that is a fact.

Ooops, that maybe another Rule 10 comment.

T

It's an error now, 10.13(a). And yes, another Rule 10 comment, although perhaps past tense and not present tense.

I don't know when it changed, but it's always been an error in games I scored, right or wrong at the time. If you drop an easy foul pop, E goes in the book immediately.

An error prevents an out. Seems logical to me.