Mets/Cards - Spiezio Triple

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by D-Man

OK, now you are trying to justify a bad reason for replay and giving another bad reason for replay. Whether McClelland was accurate or innacurate is moot. He made a procedural error and should have been penalized for it. Because he is who he is and Angel is who he is, Timmy got away with his overturn.

Are you sure? According to some familiar with the quiet way ML handles these issues, McCllelland was penalized for his actions.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by D-Man

OK, now you are trying to justify a bad reason for replay and giving another bad reason for replay. Whether McClelland was accurate or innacurate is moot. He made a procedural error and should have been penalized for it. Because he is who he is and Angel is who he is, Timmy got away with his overturn.

Also, the fact that they got together and stuck with Welke's call, no matter how long it took, shows that a human umpire is able to get the tough ones correct once in a while.

My point is simply that had there been an approved procedure in place for checking the replay, the right call could have been ascertained in both the McClelland/Hernandez play, and the Welke play the other night, with no muss, no fuss, no drama, and no doubt.

I can live without your agreement on the matter.

Originally Posted by D-Man

If Spezio had been a robot, he would have left no doubt as to wheter he hit a home run or not.

D

I don't have the slightest idea what that means.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

The conference lasted WAY too long, and it was clear that Welke was defending his call against one or more partners who had the same WRONG conclusion about what happened that many of us had seeing the play in realtime. But for Welke's intestinal fortitude in sticking to his guns, we would have been treated to a reversal of the right call to the wrong call, clearly wrong as the whole world had seen numerous replays by the time they finally concluded their minutes long conference.

A couple of years ago Tim McClelland very surprisingly and very WRONGLY overturned an Angel Hernandez call in a playoff game. I'm sorry, but sometimes these guys AREN'T "that good."

I think the conference should last as long as it takes to make sure they get the call right. We blast them for not having a conference and then we blast them saying they are too long. This is game 4 of an NLCS, get the call right no matter how long it takes. This is the exact play where I think they need to use replay! It would have taken a shortly amount of time to check a replay in the situation.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

I've often wondered by those foul line guys are so close to the infield. It would seem they would be farther out towards the warning track. Actually, they're so close to the base umpires they could come up and rotate at third and first when the second base umpire goes out, and the third or first base umpire rotate to second or go out on a fly. No need for the plate umpire to go anywhere but stay home. If these guys don't move off the line on certain plays, they're just wasted.

I believe the idea behind the positioning of the LF and RF umpires is to reduce the responsibilities of the 1st and 3rd base umpire by about 50%. Anything at or in front of the LF or RF umpires is the 1st or 3rd base umpires' call. Anything that turns the LF of RF umpires around is their call. They don't need to be closer to the fence, because then they would not get those good angles (like the one Welke got), and would reduce their fields of vision significantly.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I believe the idea behind the positioning of the LF and RF umpires is to reduce the responsibilities of the 1st and 3rd base umpire by about 50%. Anything at or in front of the LF or RF umpires is the 1st or 3rd base umpires' call. Anything that turns the LF of RF umpires around is their call.

I think the mechanic is "bounding balls" and balls that land in front of U1 /U3 belong to U1 / U3. Fly balls that land past U1 / U3 belong to ULF / URF.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think the mechanic is "bounding balls" and balls that land in front of U1 /U3 belong to U1 / U3. Fly balls that land past U1 / U3 belong to ULF / URF.

That's not how I understand the mechanic. My understanding is that fly balls are U1/U3 call up until it passes the LF/RF. I have observed it to be that way, with the LF/RF echoing the call, but U1/U3 with initiating it unless it is past the LF/RF. That was the explanation the other night when LF jumped out of the way, and U3 took the call. It was reported by that umpire to the press box that the mechanic is for the third base umpire to make all calls on fly balls up to the LF umpire, and the LF umpire make all calls on fly balls past him. Perhaps we should ask an MLB umpire to be certain either way.

What's with this?:

Originally Posted by PWL

I guess those MLB umpires aren't just as rootin' tootin' bust it out to get a good look as you would be.

Or this?:

Originally Posted by PWL

AND YOU KNOW THIS BECAUSE

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

AND YOU KNOW THIS BECAUSE

It must not work that well as they still have controversy on calls like this and balls down the foul line almost every year. Remember the Jeffrey Meier incident in the Yankees/Orioles series. Guess you forgot the home run they missed in the Series last year that hit above the line. I guess those MLB umpires aren't just as rootin' tootin' bust it out to get a good look as you would be.

I know this because....that is the mechanic. Just as I described it. Where they set up is plenty close to the fence. If they were any closer, it would decrease their field of vision. Experiment with this for yourself. Go to the ballyard, stand where the RF umpire stands. Look at the fence. See large amount of fence. Now go stand by the fence and look at the fence. See small amount of fence.

Everybody misses calls once in a while. Some of us miss fewer than others. Jeffrey Meier had the benefit of Ritchie Garcia, who happened to be running with his head bouncing up and down when the interference occured, as many MLB guys do regularly. I was trained to get as close as possible, with a good angle, and be set when the action happens.

Often I see MLB guys running when they should be setting. I attribute it to them thinking they are better than they really are, and feel that they can get it right while on the move. I am either set or completely under control when I make such a call.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PWL

Actually, they're so close to the base umpires they could come up and rotate at third and first when the second base umpire goes out, and the third or first base umpire rotate to second or go out on a fly.

Having ULF rotate to third is part of the standard mechanic.