Braves V Mets May 7th

[PanamaCityBrian]

I really hope that someone other than myself saw the play in the top of the 2nd with the missed squeeze play by Smoltz, the error by LoDuca, possible miss called by PU ( Hernandez ), not allowing runners to advance with a live ball, and then the immediate ejection of LoDuca and subsequent by Cox which I believe he was in the right and Smoltz should have been alotted the base.... but anyways alot of stuff happened I just wanted clarification I think the BU blew the play but hey I am still getting all this down..

Thanx

Panama City Brian

[LMan]

Im watching it. I dont know how some folks can play the 'this/that group of umps is incompetent' when you have the A's game yesterday where the entire crew forgot the pitch count and sent a BR to 1B with three balls, and now this Everyone screws up sometimes....

I can see Angel missing the tag at the plate (if there was one), almost impossible to see a tag on a heel (if thats where it was). But the failure to allow Smoltz to go to 2B is baffling.

Is an ejection an automatic "TIME!" situation? LouDuca threw the ball down in his hissyfit and it was still live, AFAIK.

When Angel ejected LouDuca, did that AUTOMATICALLY kill the ball? That's all I can think of......

[PanamaCityBrian]

That is what confused me!

As I am watching the game... I can understand Lima being alittle off today ( mind you I am a Braves Homer ) but Angels strike zone is all over the place today. Just seems like Angel is having some personal issues today and having one of those games to forget.

Panama City Brian

[LMan]

well, like I said I would have called R3 safe just like Angel did, since F2 missed his side and there's almost no way he could have seen the ball subsequently touch his heel (if it did). Perhaps LoDuca felt the ball hit the runner's foot and that's why he was upset.

But to get yourself (F2, no less) tossed in the 2d inning over this is inexcusable.

I am very curious about the event that got Bobby C. tossed. Why was Smoltz not allowed to go to 2d?

Smoltzy had a heckuva day....his 2,600th strikeout, two successful safety squeezes, and a double!

[john2190]

The ball was dead as soon the ejection occurred:

Rule: 5.10(g)

The umpire in chief shall call "Time"_(g) When an umpire orders a player or any other person removed from the playing field.

Also, if I remember correctly, the batter/runner was between first and second when the ejection occurred. Thus, he was not legally entitled to second, as he had not touched it, and therefore he remained at first base.

As for the play at home, I thought the plate umpire made the correct call. Even if he didn't, which I believe he did, the catcher had no reason to go off like that.

[bossman72]

I've read somewhere that the ejection does not occur until after playing action has stopped and it's NOT an automatic time out.

[bossman72]

Ah yes, 5.10 h and 9.01 d

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by bossman72

I've read somewhere that the ejection does not occur until after playing action has stopped and it's NOT an automatic time out.

You got it.

[Clint Lawson]

It is in the PBUC and Big League manual that the player can continue to play after an ejection till the ball becomes dead. It is not dead at the time of the ejection.

[PanamaCityBrian]

With runners on first and third and one out, Smoltz hit a tapper in front of the plate against Jose Lima (0-1). Lo Duca fielded the ball with his right hand and lunged back in an attempt to tag Atlanta's Brian McCann. Plate umpire Angel Hernandez called McCann safe, and Lo Duca slammed the ball to the infield grass while arguing.

"I spiked it pretty good, probably better than Ickey Woods, but I didn't do the Ickey Shuffle," Lo Duca said.

Hernandez immediately ejected Lo Duca. Cox got tossed for arguing after Smoltz wasn't allowed to take second.

After the game, both Lima and Lo Duca said that Hernandez told them that he was calling pitches farther off the plate strikes for Smoltz, but not for Lima.

"When the umpire said 'I'm going to give you a couple of inches off the plate, but I'm not going to give you 4-5 inches because you're not John Smoltz,' I'm trying to protect my pitcher," Lo Duca said.



Can someone help me out... I am curious if this sounds alittle funny or these are just too players trying to get a rise out of the umpire ranks with these comments. I just would find it alittle unprofessional to say that to a player after a game like todays.

[SanDiegoSteve]

LoDuca missed the tag, Smoltz should have been allowed to advance to wherever he had advanced to, since the ball was still alive during the ejection.

It is not surprising that Lima and LoDuca would cry about the strike zone. Who does Lima think he is, Smoltz?

I have long been of the opinion that Angel Hernandez does not belong in the majors.

[BenedictArnold]

SDS, why even go there about Angel. He is a MLB umpire. You have your opinions. Great. What nmakes you qualified. I knwo Angel personally. He has several post season assignments. I am sure he doesn't belong in MLB but they give him those assignments anyways. Well that is incorrect. There are guys that have over ten years in MLB without a psot season assignment. Angel Hernandez is good umpire, by anyones standards. But more importantly, he is a good guy.

As for the play, PU never called time during the play. However, U1 called time when the manager came onto the field. U2 saw that Smoltz hadn't reached 2nd base when time was called. Therefore, Smoltz last legally occupied 1st base. Edn of play.

Cox argues with U2, and U1 must explain what happened. That is why U1 ejects Cox.

Hope this helps.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by BenedictArnold

As for the play, PU never called time during the play. However, U1 called time when the manager came onto the field. U2 saw that Smoltz hadn't reached 2nd base when time was called. Therefore, Smoltz last legally occupied 1st base. Edn of play.

Cox argues with U2, and U1 must explain what happened. That is why U1 ejects Cox.

Hope this helps.

U1 called time when WHICH manager came on the field? Ihave not seen the play.

[David B]

Originally Posted by PanamaCityBrian

With runners on first and third and one out, Smoltz hit a tapper in front of the plate against Jose Lima (0-1). Lo Duca fielded the ball with his right hand and lunged back in an attempt to tag Atlanta's Brian McCann. Plate umpire Angel Hernandez called McCann safe, and Lo Duca slammed the ball to the infield grass while arguing.

"I spiked it pretty good, probably better than Ickey Woods, but I didn't do the Ickey Shuffle," Lo Duca said.

Hernandez immediately ejected Lo Duca. Cox got tossed for arguing after Smoltz wasn't allowed to take second.

After the game, both Lima and Lo Duca said that Hernandez told them that he was calling pitches farther off the plate strikes for Smoltz, but not for Lima.

"When the umpire said 'I'm going to give you a couple of inches off the plate, but I'm not going to give you 4-5 inches because you're not John Smoltz,' I'm trying to protect my pitcher," Lo Duca said.



Can someone help me out... I am curious if this sounds alittle funny or these are just too players trying to get a rise out of the umpire ranks with these comments. I just would find it alittle unprofessional to say that to a player after a game like todays.

Idiot catcher, doesn't he realize the umpires read the papers also.

And he thinks the strike zone was small for this game ... just wait until the next game.

Thanks
David

[LMan]

That's not atypical from a MLB ump, he's only stating the truth.


Even during the game, the announcers noted (after a close Lima pitch was balled by Hernandez) that if you are wild (as Lima was all day), then its accepted that you won't get as many close strikes as you do when you show control. That's baseball and LoDuca/Lima know that.

This is a attempt to show up Hernandez and you are right, the zone will be a postage stamp next time. But when you are F2 and toss yourself from a game in the 2d inning, what do you expect?