Balk

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

A quick question Rich - Am I the only one who thought that a pitcher has to step off the rubber in order to make an appeal?

I don't know if you're the only one, but I don't think MLBUM is needed to make the correct ruling (although it clarifies the issue, I agree).

The "an appeal is not a play" statement only applies for the purposes of making subsequent appeals. Withou it, a team would be forced to only make one appeal. For all other rules (balks, for example) an appeal is a play (except, apparently, in Canada).

[BigUmp56]

It's in the AR to 7.10.


If a pitcher balks when making an appeal, such act shall be a play. An appeal should be clearly intended as an appeal, either by a verbal request by the player or an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. A player, inadvertently stepping on the base with a ball in his hand, would not constitute an appeal. Time is not out when an appeal is being made.

AH must have had some reason for calling the balk. I can't imagine that he would have thought they weren't throwing to first for an appeal considering Belliard was already standing on second.


Tim.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It's in the AR to 7.10.


If a pitcher balks when making an appeal, such act shall be a play. An appeal should be clearly intended as an appeal, either by a verbal request by the player or an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. A player, inadvertently stepping on the base with a ball in his hand, would not constitute an appeal. Time is not out when an appeal is being made.

AH must have had some reason for calling the balk. I can't imagine that he would have thought they weren't throwing to first for an appeal considering Belliard was already standing on second.


Tim.

I find it entirely believable that Angel called the balk under the mistaken understanding that a pitcher can't throw to an unoccupied base from the rubber in order to make an appeal. It wouldn't be the first, or even the most egregious rule misinterpretation Angel has made.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

Methinks everyone is applying a FED rule as is written in their rule book if somebody cares to look it up. I am speaking of course about an appeal not being a play.

Meknows you are incorrect. Rule 7.10 says "An appeal is not to be interpreted as a play or an attempted play."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

And I didn't say it wasn't in the OBR either. But a balk is a horse of a different color. However, I do not think a balk on an appeal is addressed as a play in FED, but it also exhausts the defense's ability to appeal just as is the case in OBR. I do not have a FED rule or case book handy.

As far as making an appeal from the pitcher's rubber, it is not a balk to throw to a base for an appeal in all 3 major codes. Both FED and OBR use the NCAA interpretation, so you can't be balked for simply doing what Andy Petite did. Angel screwed the ol' poochie.

As far as erring on appeals, in FED an appeal is not a play as you pointed out. The defense may still appeal after erring on its first appeal. (8-2 Penalty, 2.29.6b)

NCAA is different. You cannot make a later appeal if the ball is thrown out of play on the appeal attempt, or any subsequent appeal if thrown away in live-ball territory and any runner advances.(8-6b-3, 8-6b-5, 8-6b-5a)

In OBR, an appeal is cancelled only when the defense overthrows the ball into dead-ball territory. The advancing of runners has no impact on the appeal.(7.10)

A balk on an appeal is considered a "play" (for appeal purposes) in FED as well as OBR. The official interpretation from Rumble is: "A "balk is also an illegal pitch," so a balk would cancel the the right of the defense to appeal."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PWL

And I didn't say it wasn't in the OBR either. But a balk is a horse of a different color. However, I do not think a balk on an appeal is addressed as a play in FED, but it also exhausts the defense's ability to appeal just as is the case in OBR. I do not have a FED rule or case book handy.

You are correct that a balk removes the right to a further appeal in FED.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

Actually, it was not a snotty canadian comment, Baseball canada has Defined a play in it's own rules separate to OBR. That is why I said my opinion was based on Canadian rules, As we since have seen MLB has a different stance. In Canada it would have been a Balk. Sorry but bringing up Canada is like Fed or OBR. So put that in your pompous U.S. A$$.

If the comment wasn't snotty, then I apologize for the misinterpretation.

I looked up Baseball Canada's website (http://baseball.ca), and they do NOT have an independent rule code. The site links to the MLB rules site, and the Microsoft Word document labeled "Canadian Rules as of 2006" is mostly regulations for little boy ball, plus a few interps. That does not constitute it as a distinct rule set: it is, at most, modified OBR.

The definition of "PLAY" that it includes is a standard OBR interp, and consistent with the statement in 7.10(d) that "An appeal is not to be interpreted as a play or an attempted play."

Nothing in "Canadian Rules as of 2006" contradicts the standard OBR interp that throwing to an unoccupied base for an appeal IS a play for the limited purpose of applying 8.05(d), and so is NOT a balk.

[tjones1]

I believe Carl is correct. Angel Hernandez admitted to making a mistake by calling a balk.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I believe Carl is correct. Angel Hernandez admitted to making a mistake by calling a balk.

Where did you read/hear that AH admitted the mistake??

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

Where did you read/hear that AH admitted the mistake??

From the broadcast from tonight's Astros/Cardinals game on the CW out of St. Louis.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by tjones1

From the broadcast from tonight's Astros/Cardinals game on the CW out of St. Louis.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "CW". Thanks again for the info!

[Carbide Keyman]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "CW". Thanks again for the info!

The networks formerly known as UPN and WB combined to form The new CW network. They have hundreds of affiliates throughout the country.

Best known shows: Gilmore Girls, Smallville, Reba, Supernatural ( this information provided by my 18 year old daughter)

[Carl Childress]

Originally Posted by Carbide Keyman

The networks formerly known as UPN and WB combined to form The new CW network. They have hundreds of affiliates throughout the country.

Best known shows: Gilmore Girls, Smallville, Reba, Supernatural ( this information provided by my 18 year old daughter)

From Wikiyouknow what:

The CW Television Network is a television network in the United States launched during the 2006-07 television season. It features a mixture of programming from both UPN and The WB television networks, which ceased independent operations on September 15 and September 17, 2006 respectively. The network, which targets younger viewers[1], is a joint venture between CBS Corporation, owner of UPN, and Warner Bros. Entertainment, a subsidiary of Time Warner, majority owner of The WB.

The network began operations on Monday, September 18, 2006 with last season's 7th Heaven finale and then an Entertainment Tonight-produced show entitled ET Presents: The CW: The Launch of a New Network. On September 19, the same format was used with last season's Gilmore Girls finale and an encore showing of ET Presents with additional footage of the launch party from Warner Bros. Studios in Burbank. However, the network marketed its formal launch date as Wednesday, September 20, with the 2-hour season premiere of America's Next Top Model. [1]

On Time-Warner in my area, it's channel 53.

Of course, nobody even noticed the other two were gone!

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by Carl Childress

From Wikiyouknow what:

The CW Television Network is a television network in the United States launched during the 2006-07 television season. It features a mixture of programming from both UPN and The WB television networks, which ceased independent operations on September 15 and September 17, 2006 respectively. The network, which targets younger viewers[1], is a joint venture between CBS Corporation, owner of UPN, and Warner Bros. Entertainment, a subsidiary of Time Warner, majority owner of The WB.

The network began operations on Monday, September 18, 2006 with last season's 7th Heaven finale and then an Entertainment Tonight-produced show entitled ET Presents: The CW: The Launch of a New Network. On September 19, the same format was used with last season's Gilmore Girls finale and an encore showing of ET Presents with additional footage of the launch party from Warner Bros. Studios in Burbank. However, the network marketed its formal launch date as Wednesday, September 20, with the 2-hour season premiere of America's Next Top Model. [1]

On Time-Warner in my area, it's channel 53.

Of course, nobody even noticed the other two were gone!

Very informative Carl! However, I appreciate your knowledge in the umpiring rules arena a little more

[Carl Childress]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

Very informative Carl! However, I appreciate your knowledge in the umpiring rules arena a little more

Then buy the BRD!