Fall Ball Sportsmanship

[Justme]

Originally Posted by stmaryrams

My question is have you ever been approached by a coach to do that to his own team and what did you do?

Yes I have been approached by coaches asking me to 'open' my strike zone.
My answer is always NO! I hate those one sided games or games with lots of walks too but I'm not going to change how I work to accommodate a teams lack of talent or lack of coaching.

With all that said, my zone is 'bigger' at the start of the little guy games than when I'm doing an Adult League game loaded with former college / pro players.

[ozzy6900]

I don't care if it is Fall-ball, Summer-ball, or Spring-ball. Changing the strike zone as ctblu40 and LMAN suggest is Fool's-ball.

There is nothing that you can say to convince me, gentlemen. You two (and anyone else that does this) should hang up your uniforms and never darken the baseball diamond again.

An umpire is supposed to be unbiased. At least that's the way it's supposed to be. So by the same token, if it's a tie game do you guys shrink the strike zone to help the batters? Come on, you guys are BS! Please don't embarrass yourselves by responding any further. Take your sorry a$$es and burn your uniforms. You make the rest of us sick!

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I don't care if it is Fall-ball, Summer-ball, or Spring-ball. Changing the strike zone as ctblu40 and LMAN suggest is Fool's-ball.

There is nothing that you can say to convince me, gentlemen. You two (and anyone else that does this) should hang up your uniforms and never darken the baseball diamond again.

An umpire is supposed to be unbiased. At least that's the way it's supposed to be. So by the same token, if it's a tie game do you guys shrink the strike zone to help the batters? Come on, you guys are BS! Please don't embarrass yourselves by responding any further. Take your sorry a$$es and burn your uniforms. You make the rest of us sick!

Considering that you don't know me and have never seen me work a game, these are pretty harsh words.
I assume that you work both NCAA and HS baseball (just from your posts). If this is the case, are you telling me that your zone for a Big East game is the same as it is for a Shoreline Conference game? Or worse yet East Haven JV vs Guilford JV? Please... an umpire must be able to call an accepted/ expected zone! If he can't (or won't) he better stick to 1 level or the other.

There is a time and a place to adjust your strike zone... if you don't know that by now, you'll never stop working those 25-2, 3.5 hour games... enjoy!

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Considering that you don't know me and have never seen me work a game, these are pretty harsh words.
I assume that you work both NCAA and HS baseball (just from your posts). If this is the case, are you telling me that your zone for a Big East game is the same as it is for a Shoreline Conference game? Or worse yet East Haven JV vs Guilford JV? Please... an umpire must be able to call an accepted/ expected zone! If he can't (or won't) he better stick to 1 level or the other.

There is a time and a place to adjust your strike zone... if you don't know that by now, you'll never stop working those 25-2, 3.5 hour games... enjoy!

I don't have to see one of your games, because you have told me enough.You are a cheater!

Further more, you are going off the subject trying to defend yourself. We are talking about changing the zone during the friggen game! Of course the strike zone is different from NCAA to JV to LL but you never, ever change your zone knowingly during a game! You might as just well say, "okay, you guys suck so they win".

And one more thing, it is quite obvious that you may be in my association and if you are, please identify yourself at our first meeting of the new season. This way I can make sure that Arnie or Tony never assign us together!

I'm done with this!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I don't have to see one of your games, because you have told me enough.You are a cheater!

Further more, you are going off the subject trying to defend yourself. We are talking about changing the zone during the friggen game! Of course the strike zone is different from NCAA to JV to LL but you never, ever change your zone knowingly during a game! You might as just well say, "okay, you guys suck so they win".

And one more thing, it is quite obvious that you may be in my association and if you are, please identify yourself at our first meeting of the new season. This way I can make sure that Arnie or Tony never assign us together!

I'm done with this!

What Dave Hensley said in the post above mine. Don't tell anyone, but I may have even called someone out in a 30-0 youth game at first base on a really close play where the BR may not have actually been out. Guess what? Life goes on and most teams up 30-0 understand and to heck with those that don't.

Oh, I can hear the violins playing. Wahhhh wahhhh wahhh.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I don't have to see one of your games, because you have told me enough.You are a cheater!

Further more, you are going off the subject trying to defend yourself. We are talking about changing the zone during the friggen game! Of course the strike zone is different from NCAA to JV to LL but you never, ever change your zone knowingly during a game! You might as just well say, "okay, you guys suck so they win".

And one more thing, it is quite obvious that you may be in my association and if you are, please identify yourself at our first meeting of the new season. This way I can make sure that Arnie or Tony never assign us together!

I'm done with this!

I'm not on your board... so don't worry about that.

I open the zone up for both teams, so I don't understand how this is cheating. And yes, I sometimes change the zone during the game, I would bet that most good amature umpires do.

And believe me, if I had the power to say "You guys suck and they win," and end a lopsided game I would do so in a heartbeat! I'll bet the participants wouldn't be all that upset either!

You're getting pretty worked up over a game management style that you don't agree with... keep calm, the sun will still rise tomorrow!


Sheesh!

[LMan]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

the sun will still rise tomorrow!

Not for cheaters. The sky is always grey for cheaters.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

I sometimes change the zone during the game, I would bet that most good amature umpires do.

You would be betting wrong.

Some bad ones do. Good ones don't.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You would be betting wrong.

Some bad ones do. Good ones don't.

So we should agree to disagree...

[mcrowder]

I've been asked, sportingly, to do this 3 times. Twice I said No, and told him just to tell his kids to swing the bat.

The other time, it was at the plate conference, and it was both coaches. The game was the final game before playoffs and the same night as some sort of Senior Night at the high school, so most of the players were "Varsity for a day" types. Seeding for both teams was set already, and this game was essentially playing out the string. Both teams planned on putting in a new pitcher each inning, one who had never pitched.

I told them I was not going to get ridiculous, but that I was going to explore the edges of the zone and take "extra consideration" to the fact that the ball was arcing (like you might in a 10U softball game, for example, where the arc makes the 3rd dimension of the strike zone a living breathing thing).

Didn't call anything horribly bad a strike, but if it was hittable, it was a strike. No complaints either way.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

There is nothing that you can say to convince me, gentlemen. You two (and anyone else that does this) should hang up your uniforms and never darken the baseball diamond again.

An umpire is supposed to be unbiased. At least that's the way it's supposed to be. So by the same token, if it's a tie game do you guys shrink the strike zone to help the batters? Come on, you guys are BS! Please don't embarrass yourselves by responding any further. Take your sorry a$$es and burn your uniforms. You make the rest of us sick!

Get off your sanctimonious high horse and wipe the hors--t off while you're at it. The question asked is not some kind of moral issue, and an umpire who makes an effort to accommodate a game that NEEDS to be Kevorked is not the derelict you are painting him to be. Dispense with the drama queen BS and come back to earth.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I don't care if it is Fall-ball, Summer-ball, or Spring-ball. Changing the strike zone as ctblu40 and LMAN suggest is Fool's-ball.

There is nothing that you can say to convince me, gentlemen. You two (and anyone else that does this) should hang up your uniforms and never darken the baseball diamond again.

An umpire is supposed to be unbiased. At least that's the way it's supposed to be. So by the same token, if it's a tie game do you guys shrink the strike zone to help the batters? Come on, you guys are BS! Please don't embarrass yourselves by responding any further. Take your sorry a$$es and burn your uniforms. You make the rest of us sick!

Ozzy, IMO you are missing the point on this one.

The first question?

Why are we there in the first place?

Answer: To make certain that one team does not gain an UNFAIR advantage not intended by the rules over another.

When the score is rediculous, how does changing the zone give one team an unfair advantage over another. Most kids in a blow-out game have already batted a "zillion" times. When I played and we were getting blown out I wanted no part of the game. It was time to go back to practice and get ready for the next game.

No-one, The coaches, parents etc. want to be there when the score is lopsided, especially on those cold days. Also, nothing good comes out of it.

As I stated in my original response, IMO the onus should be on the coaches to stop the game (absent any kind of mercy rule).

IMO, we are not "cheating" when we change the zone because the score is out of hand. Also, the game is for the participants not US so if our CLIENTS want us to change the zone and get the game over with, then we abide. They are the ones "paying the freight"

Also, we are talking about a BLOWOUT game not a game in which one team is up by say 7-8 runs in the early innings where the other team has a chance to come-back. By Blow-out we are talking about a team who is winning by some 15 runs and if they kept playing hard could easily be up by 30 or more.

Pete Booth

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Ozzy, IMO you are missing the point on this one.

The first question?

Why are we there in the first place?

Answer: To make certain that one team does not gain an UNFAIR advantage not intended by the rules over another.

When the score is rediculous, how does changing the zone give one team an unfair advantage over another. Most kids in a blow-out game have already batted a "zillion" times. When I played and we were getting blown out I wanted no part of the game. It was time to go back to practice and get ready for the next game.

No-one, The coaches, parents etc. want to be there when the score is lopsided, especially on those cold days. Also, nothing good comes out of it.

As I stated in my original response, IMO the onus should be on the coaches to stop the game (absent any kind of mercy rule).

IMO, we are not "cheating" when we change the zone because the score is out of hand. Also, the game is for the participants not US so if our CLIENTS want us to change the zone and get the game over with, then we abide. They are the ones "paying the freight"

Also, we are talking about a BLOWOUT game not a game in which one team is up by say 7-8 runs in the early innings where the other team has a chance to come-back. By Blow-out we are talking about a team who is winning by some 15 runs and if they kept playing hard could easily be up by 30 or more.

Pete Booth

So then Pete, why don't we just let the batter of the good team come to the plate and simply call him out on strikes right then and there? That is what you are doing by "opening up your zone" for that team anyway.

In your own words, "As I stated in my original response, IMO the onus should be on the coaches to stop the game (absent any kind of mercy rule)." Let the coaches deal with it!

So in my words, anyone and I mean ANYONE that does this is horse$hit!

Finis

[SanDiegoSteve]

Ozzy, they do it all the time in spring training games in MLB. They call runners out when they are 2 steps past the base, they expand the strike zone, the don't call balks, etc. They try to speed the games up, especially in the Cactus League, where it's hotter than blazes all the time, and the games are lopsided.

The players and coaches all understand this, and they appreciate the service. These games are scheduled for 9 innings, and there is no mercy rule available. They can't just agree to stop the game, they have to play it out. The only ones who can mercifully speed them up is the umpires.

[LMan]

How come you keep saying you are 'done with this' yet you keep responding with the same argument?

You are of course entitled to your POV but shouting it over and over doesn't change anything on either side.

Your overbearing legalism on this rather small area of game management is puzzling to me, to say the least. I work with umpires who feel as you do, but they don't threaten excommunication because of it.

Sure, there are some risks inherent in the strategy. There's risk in every game-management decision we make. That's for each umpire to assess and act accordingly, which is why 'not everyone can umpire.'