balk

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

It's dead when the catcher catches the baseball, as mentioned a few times higher in the thread.

Unless of course, it's ball four with first base occupied.

[mbyron]

The problem with allowing F2 to throw down is precisely that something like the OP might happen: ball gets away from whoever is covering 2B, and the runner heads down to 3B. Now you have to kill it and enforce the balk (since the batter did not reach 1B), which means sending that runner BACK to 2B.

So I agree: call time when F2 gloves the pitch.

Also an argument for really using your lungs to call balks...

[PWL]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Unless of course, it's ball four with first base occupied.

Why would the ball not be dead when the catcher catches the ball. All you simply is do ignore the balk since all runners advance.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

Why would the ball not be dead when the catcher catches the ball. All you simply is do ignore the balk since all runners advance.

Since when is the ball dead when you ignore a balk? If you are ignoring the balk since all runners advance on ball four, then the ball remains alive. What makes you think the ball is dead because of ball four???

[PWL]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Since when is the ball dead when you ignore a balk? If you are ignoring the balk since all runners advance on ball four, then the ball remains alive. What makes you think the ball is dead because of ball four???

Because the first four words in the penalty read THE BALL IS DEAD.

[ggk]

thanks for all of the input.
PRO -
consensus says to kill the play when F2 catches the pitch.

is there anywhere i can get my hands on a copy of the MLB Umpire's Manual ?? thanks.

NCAA -
do all agree that play is allowed to continue b/c F2 is not in the infield (per ctblu 40's early post)?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ggk

thanks for all of the input.
NCAA -
do all agree that play is allowed to continue b/c F2 is not in the infield (per ctblu 40's early post)?

No. The NCAA rule is the same as OBR on this issue.

[ggk]

bob jenkins stated
No. The NCAA rule is the same as OBR on this issue.

but what about ctblu40's post..........

"NCAA rules are similar, but not the same. I would not call time and enforce the balk in this situation in an NCAA game because there are 2 criteria that need to be met.
First, 9-3-PENALTY(1) is the same as OBR in that if all runners including the batter advance 1 base, the balk is ignored (which is not the case in the play above).
Second, 9-3-PENALTY(2) indicates that "the umpire shall call balk in the usual manner, but shall not call "time" until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and/or a fielder is in posession of the ball in the infield)." In your discription, a fielder has not yet held the ball in the infield (see NCAA RULE 2)."

to me this says to allow play to continue on a pitched ball caught by the catcher as he is not in the "infield". as opposed to a balk on a throw to first where F3 catches the ball - that you would kill when he caught it.

do you have a citation to support your assertion? i just want to get this right in my head.
thanks.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ggk

bob jenkins stated
No. The NCAA rule is the same as OBR on this issue.

but what about ctblu40's post..........

"NCAA rules are similar, but not the same. I would not call time and enforce the balk in this situation in an NCAA game because there are 2 criteria that need to be met.
First, 9-3-PENALTY(1) is the same as OBR in that if all runners including the batter advance 1 base, the balk is ignored (which is not the case in the play above).
Second, 9-3-PENALTY(2) indicates that "the umpire shall call balk in the usual manner, but shall not call "time" until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and/or a fielder is in posession of the ball in the infield)." In your discription, a fielder has not yet held the ball in the infield (see NCAA RULE 2)."

to me this says to allow play to continue on a pitched ball caught by the catcher as he is not in the "infield". as opposed to a balk on a throw to first where F3 catches the ball - that you would kill when he caught it.

do you have a citation to support your assertion? i just want to get this right in my head.
thanks.

The rule he cited includes some preamble to the effect "if F1 throws wild..."

In the OP, F1 did not throw wild.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The rule he cited includes some preamble to the effect "if F1 throws wild..."

In the OP, F1 did not throw wild.

Just so everyone knows, I think I'm leaning towards Bob's thinking here.
The exact quote from the 2006 NCAA book is as follows.

9-3-PENALTY(2) If a balk is immediately followed by a wild throw by the pitcher to a base that permits runner(s) to advance to or beyond the base to which that runner is entitled, the balk shall be acknowledged. The umpire will call the balk in the usual manner, but shall not call "Time" until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and/or a fielder is in posession of the ball in the infield).

Another consideration I have made since my original post is that NCAA 9-3-PENALTY(1) says:
"If the balk is immediately followed by a pitch that permits the batter and each runner to advance a minimum of one base, the balk is ignored and the ball remains live."

Clearly, the NCAA rules are making a distinction between a throw to a base and a pitch. I stand corrected with regards to the proper ruling under NCAA rules... thanks BOB.