When to signal, or not to...

[Uncle George]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

There are a couple of situations that do not need a mechanic or a verbal.
An obvious catch of a batted ball in flight, a foul ball batted directly back to the screen (or into the parking lot).

As far as the pull the string thing, if it is strike 3 looking, I'm ringin it up and selling it big. Most coaches teach to protect the plate with 2 strikes, if I don't sell this one, I think it leaves room for someone to think/say that I wasn't confident in my judgement.

Uncle George,
From your post it seems like you don't like to sell the close calls


but on routine plays you still use mechanics


I find this system very curious.

I'm not afraid of selling close calls. I belive that when you "sell the call", it most often brings out the coach to protest the call. It seems the closer the call, the louder you get, the trouble you're going to get into! You simply say "out" or "safe", head for you next position! What's the purpose/benefit of screaming the call? The runner is either out or safe. It's as simple as that!
Again, in my post, the VETERAN UMP said the state association wanted a call, either verbal or physical, on each play!

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Tim C

This means I know need to "trim" my crew.

Am I going to lose my spot?

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Uncle George

I'm not afraid of selling close calls. I belive that when you "sell the call", it most often brings out the coach to protest the call. It seems the closer the call, the louder you get, the trouble you're going to get into! You simply say "out" or "safe", head for you next position! What's the purpose/benefit of screaming the call? The runner is either out or safe. It's as simple as that!
Again, in my post, the VETERAN UMP said the state association wanted a call, either verbal or physical, on each play!

IMO, selling the call emphatically is more likely to keep the coach in the dugout and not selling is more likely to invite a “conversation.”

I don’t know how much experience you have or what levels of ball you work, but let me offer some food for thought;
1) A veteran umpire in my association, when starting in the ‘A’ position, takes every play at first base in foul territory.
2) Another veteran umpire I know, when working the plate, insists on taking the batter-runner into second base if the ball is overthrown at first. That is, no runners on, ground ball batted to F6 who throws wild to F3 covering first base. This veteran insists that BU stay with the ball (to rule on in play/out of play) while PU hustles into the infield to rule on possible plays on BR.

I could go on and on....

Moral of the story- veteran doesn’t necessarily mean good or right.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Uncle George

As I said, the VETERAN UMP said the state association wants a call, verbal or visual, on every situation where there was a play!

There are a lot of veteran umpires who have one year of experience 30 times. And many college umpires are just available for Wednesday noon doubleheaders while others are at work.

I know what they teach at school. Routine fly balls caught above the waist are not given a visual signal.

FWIW, I think Uncle George is a troll, but I haven't figured out who, yet....

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

IMO, selling the call emphatically is more likely to keep the coach in the dugout and not selling is more likely to invite a “conversation.”

I don’t know how much experience you have or what levels of ball you work, but let me offer some food for thought;
1) A veteran umpire in my association, when starting in the ‘A’ position, takes every play at first base in foul territory.
2) Another veteran umpire I know, when working the plate, insists on taking the batter-runner into second base if the ball is overthrown at first. That is, no runners on, ground ball batted to F6 who throws wild to F3 covering first base. This veteran insists that BU stay with the ball (to rule on in play/out of play) while PU hustles into the infield to rule on possible plays on BR.

I could go on and on....

Moral of the story- veteran doesn’t necessarily mean good or right.

What's wrong with #2, other than "it's not how it's taught?"

I'm at the 45 foot line and can easily take the BR into second. You have to scramble to try to pivot in and get in position for a call at second.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Uncle George

I'm not afraid of selling close calls. I belive that when you "sell the call", it most often brings out the coach to protest the call. It seems the closer the call, the louder you get, the trouble you're going to get into! You simply say "out" or "safe", head for you next position! What's the purpose/benefit of screaming the call? The runner is either out or safe. It's as simple as that!
Again, in my post, the VETERAN UMP said the state association wanted a call, either verbal or physical, on each play!

My favorite veteran umps are the ones that still use a pillow and try to hide behind the catcher to call balls and strike.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

What's wrong with #2, other than "it's not how it's taught?"

I'm at the 45 foot line and can easily take the BR into second. You have to scramble to try to pivot in and get in position for a call at second.

Why do you need to pivot on this play? Hasn't BU already seen the BR touch first on the initial play? No pivot necessary. Besides that, isn't BU stationed in fair territory? This makes BU closer to second than PU. Also, PU is closer to the DBT boundry than BU.

[aceholleran]

Originally Posted by GarthB

That's what pregames are for:

BU: Hi, I'm Kevin.
ME: No, you're Bill.

Too effin' funny. Posts like this are why I still lurk here.

Ace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

1) A veteran umpire in my association, when starting in the ‘A’ position, takes every play at first base in foul territory.
2) Another veteran umpire I know, when working the plate, insists on taking the batter-runner into second base if the ball is overthrown at first. That is, no runners on, ground ball batted to F6 who throws wild to F3 covering first base. This veteran insists that BU stay with the ball (to rule on in play/out of play) while PU hustles into the infield to rule on possible plays on BR.

It sounds like these two guys should work all of their games together. # 1 can always work the bases, and # 2 always work the plate. Then # 1, who is in foul territory call stay with the overthrow, and # 2 can run merrily around the infield playing base umpire (and do a merry dance, too!)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Why do you need to pivot on this play? Hasn't BU already seen the BR touch first on the initial play? No pivot necessary. Besides that, isn't BU stationed in fair territory? This makes BU closer to second than PU. Also, PU is closer to the DBT boundry than BU.

How do you keep your chest to the ball if you don't turn towards it in some way?

As the PU I don't have to get to second. I just have to get in position to make a call. The BU has to decide whether he has time to get in front of the BR -- if not, he has to wait and then chase him to second.

I just find it easier to let the PU slide over to second and the BU can follow the ball. The BU doesn't have to actually get to the fence 99% of the time.

I'll do it the taught way taught, though I don't see anything wrong with this.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

How do you keep your chest to the ball if you don't turn towards it in some way?

You don't need to keep your chest to the ball for every play, do you? I'm not being a smarta$$, that's a legitimate question.

I say No, you don't...

For example, on a base hit to the outfield, BU always turns his back to the ball. What's the difference?

[scott1231]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

You don't need to keep your chest to the ball for every play, do you? I'm not being a smarta$$, that's a legitimate question.

I say No, you don't...

For example, on a base hit to the outfield, BU always turns his back to the ball. What's the difference?

In 2- or 3-man (when U3 goes out), the Sally Look (I believe that's what they called it in camp) is becoming acceptable when watching BR touch 1B as you're headed to the infield, anticipating a throw to 2B. We were told to look over our left shoulder at the BR touching 1B as we're cutting across. Yes, make it obvious so that the coaches and players see you looking.

It's not exactly Belly To The Ball, but it's not the idiotic pivot we were required to do for so long, either.

[Uncle George]

I'm not a troll, (whatever that means)! Just another 15+ year ump of high school and legion ball doing what he likes to do. No where in the thread did I say you had to agree with me. The ultimate end is getting the call right. So what if I soft sell the call and the coach comes out. He's going to get the same response from me, the ball beat the runner or the runner beat the ball, tag or no tag! It's that simple. Personally, umps who do some "show boating" are telling the people in attendance, look at me, I'm dah man in charge! I don't think the rule book says anyting about "show business" does it? Didn't think so! On the field, we're partners and I'll do my best, you do your best. If you need me, you call, if I need you, same thing. And if I'm ever working with you and you want to do the "acting thing", go right ahead, but don't look to me for an Emmy! All you'll get is "it's been nice working with you!

[lawump]

Originally Posted by GarthB

That's what pregames are for:

BU: Hi, I'm Kevin.
ME: No, you're Bill.

Come on, all together now:

I'm just a bill.
Yes, I'm only a bill.
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.

Thank You, Schoolhouse rocks.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Uncle George

I'm not a troll, (whatever that means)! Just another 15+ year ump of high school and legion ball doing what he likes to do. No where in the thread did I say you had to agree with me. The ultimate end is getting the call right. So what if I soft sell the call and the coach comes out. He's going to get the same response from me, the ball beat the runner or the runner beat the ball, tag or no tag! It's that simple. Personally, umps who do some "show boating" are telling the people in attendance, look at me, I'm dah man in charge! I don't think the rule book says anyting about "show business" does it? Didn't think so! On the field, we're partners and I'll do my best, you do your best. If you need me, you call, if I need you, same thing. And if I'm ever working with you and you want to do the "acting thing", go right ahead, but don't look to me for an Emmy! All you'll get is "it's been nice working with you!

You really think that selling a close call with a "he got him!" and a punch out signal is "show boating?" Wow, what umpire school taught you this? You soft sell a bang-bang play around these parts, you'll soon be looking at a sub-varsity assignment sheet.