Pitch count strategy in Little League

[mick]

According to this USA Today article, pitch counts are being considered due to injury from overuse of the "golden arms".

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...injuries_x.htm

[gsf23]

I say it is about time LL got involved. There are far too many idiot coaches and parents who have no clue what they are doing to their kid’s arms. I watch a lot of little league play during the summer months and it just kills me to see these kids being trotted out there day after day, throwing 90-100 pitches with 40 breaking balls. Hell I don’t even let some of my high school pitchers throw that much.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mick

According to this USA Today article, pitch counts are being considered due to injury from overuse of the "golden arms".

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...injuries_x.htm

I'm sure Little League will have no provision about finishing the current batter, so we'll have pitching changes galore in the midst of at bats.

[David B]

Originally Posted by mick

According to this USA Today article, pitch counts are being considered due to injury from overuse of the "golden arms".

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...injuries_x.htm

High school and other leagues have been talking about this for a long time, but I just don't see it happening.

There are simply too many parents (coaches) who don't care when it comes down to it.

Our HS state guys have been talking about something like that for years since one guy pitched in all three of the games in 5A state playoffs a couple of years ago.

Thanks
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I'm sure Little League will have no provision about finishing the current batter, so we'll have pitching changes galore in the midst of at bats.

Having worked a Little League this year that was one of the 500 or so leagues nationwide participating in the experimental rule, I can tell you that these coaches provided for finishing AB's for that very reason. They would say, "okay, Johnny's almost at his pitch count, last batter," or words to that effect. Im not sure if it is included in the language of the rule, but this league was all over it like a hobo on a ham sandwich.

[bluezebra]

Some youth league and high school pitchers are allowed to throw more pitches than the professionals. I'm affiliated with a Class A Minor League team team, and pitchers are normally held to 80 pitches or less. Even MLB pitchers rarely throw 100 in a game. And these are adults.

Bob

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I'm sure Little League will have no provision about finishing the current batter, so we'll have pitching changes galore in the midst of at bats.

Rich,

Rules for the pitch count test the past two years permit a F1 to finish the batter when they reach the maximum allowed pitches.

Pitch counts year 1 were Major Div only. This year the test was for all divisions. A little tuning and it should be ready in 2007 for all leagues.

From what LL has published internally, pitch count test leagues have seen most managers pull F1 between innings when they have <10 pitches left (IMO is a good thing).

[CoachTex]

This will be a huge benefit to the kids. I once saw an 8 year old throw 145 pitches in a game.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by CoachTex

This will be a huge benefit to the kids. I once saw an 8 year old throw 145 pitches in a game.

Link to the 2006 test rules:

http://www.littleleague.org/media/Pi...ulation_06.pdf

IMO I would like to see one more group: U8 with 65 pitches per day.

[Dave Hensley]

I guess I just don't get. Little League already has inning limits in place, and I don't see any persuasive reason why gaining the precision of pitch limits instead of inning limits will save Timmy's arm from being abused.

I predict the new pitch count rule will cause some pretty serious regular season problems in leagues that are run mostly by, if you'll excuse the expression, people who don't cypher all that good. I tink they should offer it as an optional rule, not mandate it from on high after the fairly limited testing they've done.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I guess I just don't get. Little League already has inning limits in place, and I don't see any persuasive reason why gaining the precision of pitch limits instead of inning limits will save Timmy's arm from being abused.

I predict the new pitch count rule will cause some pretty serious regular season problems in leagues that are run mostly by, if you'll excuse the expression, people who don't cypher all that good. I tink they should offer it as an optional rule, not mandate it from on high after the fairly limited testing they've done.

Dave as an LL umpire and former player, i agree with you. The pitch count rule i think is stupid. LL has never had it in the 60 years of the program. I dread next year if im the umpire and something comes up. No wonder some people wanna go away from the LL program. Who even came up with this idea. More work for everybody. I havent seen any problems with out the pitch count rule. So why screw up already bad rules.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Dave as an LL umpire and former player, i agree with you. The pitch count rule i think is stupid. LL has never had it in the 60 years of the program. I dread next year if im the umpire and something comes up. No wonder some people wanna go away from the LL program. Who even came up with this idea. More work for everybody. I havent seen any problems with out the pitch count rule. So why screw up already bad rules.

Simple:

1. Because too many dumb $%%##& managers let kids go 120+ pitches, including breaking balls.

2. Innings mean next to nothing at this age - it's number and type of pitches that ruin the arm.

3. LL counted pitches at the regiona and WS level a couple years ago and were stressed over what they saw. As I recall at least half the kids who went 6 innings threw 100+ pitches. Wasn't it the FL team who let the kid go close to 140?

Keeping track is easy. Our local league uses the $7.95 click counters & record the total each inning. Zero issues in two years.

Posisitve note is zero kids out with injured arms from over use and 25% more kids being developed as pitchers.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Simple:

1. Because too many dumb $%%##& managers let kids go 120+ pitches, including breaking balls.

2. Innings mean next to nothing at this age - it's number and type of pitches that ruin the arm.

3. LL counted pitches at the regiona and WS level a couple years ago and were stressed over what they saw. As I recall at least half the kids who went 6 innings threw 100+ pitches. Wasn't it the FL team who let the kid go close to 140?

Keeping track is easy. Our local league uses the $7.95 click counters & record the total each inning. Zero issues in two years.

Posisitve note is zero kids out with injured arms from over use and 25% more kids being developed as pitchers.

Where's the documentation that proves 70 pitches is safe, but 125 pitches ruins a pitcher's arm?

Where is anything other than anecdotal, urban legend type stuff, showing significant, lasting arm injury in 12 year olds who have pitched WITHIN existing Little League inning limitations?

Where's the documented, proven problem the pitch-count rule is going to solve?

[LLPA13UmpDan]

The way I understand it is that it wont go by innings, it'll be total pitches. So according to that, you could go more than 6 innings if you are under the pitch count.

[TussAgee11]

Its a great thing.

The rule, if you look at it, will allow more kids to be pitching, which may cause for less good pitchers, but more kids get the chance, which is great.

Also, individual kids will be pitching less. Look for LL to outlaw the curveball in the coming years as well at the Majors level and below.