Pitch count strategy in Little League

[ozzy6900]

LL can't properly manage the MPR rule as proved by many of the Regional games (and the complaints on these boards). What makes you all think that a Pitch Count rule will be managed correctly?

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

LL can't properly manage the MPR rule as proved by many of the Regional games (and the complaints on these boards). What makes you all think that a Pitch Count rule will be managed correctly?

LL doesn't manage the MPR rule, it's up to the coaches to deal with it (or not). It's fine the way it's implemented, and only bonehead managers get caught with their shorts down. Unfortunetly there's plenty of those to go around.

As for the pitch count rule, I worked in one league that used it, and it worked out great. Umpires had nothing do with it, the scorekeeper dealt with it soley. I've seen plenty of kids hurt by throwing lots of pitches. It makes the managers really manage their pitching staff, and develop more players.

And Dave, as for documentation to prove that 100+ pitches is more injurious than 60, um, is common sense not good enough? 100>60. This is LL, and I've seen 70 pitch innings, and lots of clueless managers. It's to protect the kids against these morons.

As for the curveball, no one's going to outlaw it. Nor the slider or screwball. And for one, simple reason: You can't define it. That's a non-issue folks.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by kylejt

As for the pitch count rule, I worked in one league that used it, and it worked out great. Umpires had nothing do with it, the scorekeeper dealt with it soley. I've seen plenty of kids hurt by throwing lots of pitches. It makes the managers really manage their pitching staff, and develop more players.

What about those leagues that are so poorly staffed they can't put independent scorekeepers on their games? You're going to dump this new chore on the mom who's already making a mockery of the scorebook?

Anecdotal statements like "I've seen plenty of kids hurt by throwing lots of pitches" are unhelpful. What is "hurt" - they had to take Tylenol the next day for a sore arm? What is "lots of pitches?" What if I say "I've seen lots of kids throw what you think are lots of pitches and they were fine." Is the argument a tie?

And Dave, as for documentation to prove that 100+ pitches is more injurious than 60, um, is common sense not good enough? 100>60. This is LL, and I've seen 70 pitch innings, and lots of clueless managers. It's to protect the kids against these morons.

Well, 60>50, let's go to 50. 50>40, let's go to 40. Hey - let's require no more than 20 pitches in a game, and that way every kid can pitch in the game! That's the ticket!

Where are these 13 yearold invalids moping around in the "Convalescent Home for Little League Pitchers who Threw Too Many Pitches" you guys are so anxious to save? If you're going to base your argument on anecdotal "common sense" arguments, then I will counter it with the same - I've seen hundreds of kids go through Little League pitching within existing pitching limitations, and they went on to play higher levels, including high school, where the coaches were free to REALLY abuse their arms, and they all lived happily ever after. So there.

Little League isn't citing any injury statistics to support this rule change because there aren't any, plain and simple. It just sounds like a good rule to pass. It's cheap too - all you have to pay for to implement it are a few of those cheap little clickers.

Judging from last night's LLWS game, Little League needs an HBP limit rule worse than they need a pitch-count limit. You want a REAL safety rule to get behind? How about mandatory facemasks on batting helmets? We were a fraction of an inch away from catastrophe, live on national TV, in a LLWS game this weekend that would have been averted had the batter been wearing a helmet with a facemask.

But that one would cost some money to implement, wouldn't it?

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Dave, some leagues actually do require facemasks on helmets, the one league i do requires them. One night, the league presidents son was hit square in the face with the ball (i was umpiring the bases) and it was a mess. Also I agree with you there. Im thinking of doing ASA or something...Rules get dumber every season

[socalblue1]

Keep in mind that 90% of all LL rule changes are safety related. No need for them to make sense to us - it does to LL risk mgt & the BOD.

Our local leagues have been using pitch count for three years (Waiver even before the test program). It's easy to do and no one has had any issues. If the local league prefers each team keep the count that's fine. I suggest it's reported to the scorekeeper at the end of each 1/2 inning tp prevent protests.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Our local leagues have been using pitch count for three years (Waiver even before the test program). It's easy to do and no one has had any issues. If the local league prefers each team keep the count that's fine. I suggest it's reported to the scorekeeper at the end of each 1/2 inning tp prevent protests.

I believe that it is done this way in the league I umpired. The manager or coach would click off the pitches, and then relay that info to the scorekeeper each inning. That way, all he/she had to do was write down the number, not keep track of every pitch.

[CoachTex]

As a coach I always counted my pitchers' pitches. I can tell you for 8yo's, around 50 pitches you can see them start struggling. For 9&10yo's, between 60 and 70 pitches and for 11&12yo's, around 80 to 90. Of course, there's always exception to the rule. Now if LL really wanted to implement an effective pitch count, the count would graduate as the season progressed. Start off at 30 the first two weeks, 40 the next two weeks, etc. Where I see the sore arms are usually at the beginning of the season. By the end of the season, most 12yo's don't have too much problem going 80 pitches.

It's all about repetitions. For the kid that throws 80 pitches 3 days a week during the off season is fine. The kid that has to find his glove in the attic and throws 80 pitches the first game of the year is going to have problems.

But how do you legislate that? How do you protect the kids from the win-at-all-cost coaches?