OBR Ambidexterous pitcher

[Pete in AZ]

Originally Posted by SAump

What rule allows the batter to switch boxes on a whim? If the batter switches boxes, then the pitcher if he so chooses may allow his defense to move to other positions. Time would be appropriate. If you grant the batter time to switch boxes repeatedly, then you are also granting the defense time to adjust their positioning.

Someone recognizes the importance of placing time limits on this endless loop. The pitcher must first declare. The switch hitter then makes a decision. He may switch during the course of an at-bat, but he may not switch after each and every pitch. If others allow the batter to switch after every pitch, then that will tell me what kind of game their having. Gentlemen, behave here.

Then you would be wrong. The rule book clearly permits a batter to switch boxes as long as he doesn't do it while the pitcher is on the rubber and ready to pitch. We have had this discussion many times before. I don't like to participate in all the discussions but this one is pretty clear. As I said, I don't have any trouble calling the guy out if the pitcher complies with his restrictions. If the batter is doing this to rile the pitcher and his coach doesn't know the rule, I'm not there to do his job. If he comes out and asks me why I allow it, I may say that he can do it all he wants since his pitcher is not on the rubber and ready. Wanna bet that the defensive coach does his job and then I can do mine.

NO. You can't do that. You stay where you are.

That is the sign of an OOO. Then you'll have the offensive coach telling you that you don't know the rules very well. I apologize if that offends, but your interp is wrong.

[JJ]

After looking through the OBR, I find no rule that PROHIBITS a batter from switching between every pitch, if he so chooses - only the rule that says the ambidexterous pitcher must declare and remain if a switch-hitter steps to the plate and wants to switch.
I accept the PBUC note as backup for a ruling. Thanks.

JJ

[SAump]

Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

d) The following experimental rule shall be in effect for all National Association Leagues in 2006:
(1) The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the batter’s time at bat, unless one of the following exceptions applies, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate:
(i) The batter swings at a pitch;
(ii) The batter is forced out of the batter’s box by a pitch;
(iii) A member of either team requests and is granted “Time”;
(iv) A defensive player attempts a play on a runner at any base;
(v) The batter feints a bunt;
(vi) A wild pitch or passed ball occurs;
(vii) The pitcher leaves the dirt area of the pitching mound after receiving the ball; or
(viii) The catcher leaves the catcher’s box to give defensive signals.
Notwithstanding Rule 6.02(c), if the batter intentionally leaves the batter’s box and delays play, and none of the exceptions listed in Rule 6.02(d)(1)(i) through (viii) applies, the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the pitch. The ball shall remain alive.

edited to add emphasis

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by SAump

Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

d) The following experimental rule shall be in effect for all National Association Leagues in 2006:
(1) The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the batter’s time at bat, unless one of the following exceptions applies, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate:
(i) The batter swings at a pitch;
(ii) The batter is forced out of the batter’s box by a pitch;
(iii) A member of either team requests and is granted “Time”;
(iv) A defensive player attempts a play on a runner at any base;
(v) The batter feints a bunt;
(vi) A wild pitch or passed ball occurs;
(vii) The pitcher leaves the dirt area of the pitching mound after receiving the ball; or
(viii) The catcher leaves the catcher’s box to give defensive signals.
Notwithstanding Rule 6.02(c), if the batter intentionally leaves the batter’s box and delays play, and none of the exceptions listed in Rule 6.02(d)(1)(i) through (viii) applies, the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the pitch. The ball shall remain alive.

Did you READ the rule you posted?!?
There are SEVEN EXCEPTIONS, and the penalty applies ONLY if B leaves the box AND DELAYS PLAY, in which case he is charged a strike.

Originally Posted by SAump

Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

I'm calling BS on that one.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

Did you READ the rule you posted?!?
There are SEVEN EXCEPTIONS, and the penalty applies ONLY if B leaves the box AND DELAYS PLAY, in which case he is charged a strike.

I'm calling BS on that one.

ONE: The rulebook states that there are eight exceptions that allow a batter to leave his batter's box during his time at bat. Box is singular. Batter is entitled to ONE, not both.

Two: The rule states he must continue to stay in the same box throughout the batter’s time at bat. Otherwise, I am wrong and rule should read either box, or allowed to switch from one to the other.

Three: Which rule allows him to leave after any pitch, a called strike or a ball? None. A batter then may not, by rule, switch places in the batters boxes after every single pitch. Sorry to disappoint you.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by SAump

ONE: The rulebook states that there are eight exceptions that allow a batter to leave his batter's box during his time at bat.

which helps your argument, HOW?

Originally Posted by SAump

Two: The rule states he must continue to stay in the same box throughout the batter’s time at bat. Otherwise, I am wrong and rule should read either box, or allowed to switch from one to the other.

Where in the Rule does it say he must remain in the SAME box "throughout ..."? Ain't there that I can see. So, I'll pick "Otherwise, [you (SAump) are] wrong."

Originally Posted by SAump

Three: Which rule allows him to leave after any pitch, a called strike or a ball? None. A batter then may not, by rule, switch places in the batters boxes after every single pitch. Sorry to disappoint you.

Default condition in Baseball: if it is not, by Rule, prohibited - it is permitted. There are darn few exceptions to this principle: can't think of one, off-hand. Absent a penalty [of which there is NONE here, unless a delay of game is created], no reasonable person can even argue for an implied prohibition.
I'm NOT disapointed: your lack of knowledge or insight into the Rules and customs of the game of baseball as shown in this thread is exactly as I have come to expect from you.

[SAump]

(2) The batter may leave the batter’s box and the dirt area surrounding home plate when “Time” is called for the purpose of
(i) making a substitution; or
(ii) a conference by either team.

(2) (i) Batter may switch from one box to another during one at-bat. By rule, he must call time first and allow the defense fair notice. Defense may also acknowledge an unannounced substitution by allowing batter into other box and delivering a pitch. If defense complains about the switch, the UIC should determine whether to allow it or not. UIC, according to rules, customs and traditions; should not allow game delay or unsportmanship behavior to occur. Offense will be warned to "STAY in BOX" and a strike will be awarded after each occurence.

edited to add emphasis

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

Default condition in Baseball: if it is not, by Rule, prohibited - it is permitted. There are darn few exceptions to this principle: can't think of one, off-hand.

Sorry CB, have to disagree here: plenty of things are neither explicitly prohibited nor permitted in the rules. R2 may not dig a moat around 2B, for example. Neither can R1, for that matter...

Examples like that seem dumb, of course, but the point is that the rules are NEITHER an exhaustive list of what is prohibited in baseball, NOR an exhaustive list of what is permitted. No sound argument deploys reasoning of the form "Since the rules don't explicitly forbid/permit that, it must be permitted/forbidden."

The rules are rough guidelines to how the game should be played, and they must be interpreted with wisdom, experience, and good sense. An umpire lacking any one of these will err.

And a sense of humor doesn't hurt, either.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

Did you READ the rule you posted?!?
There are {SEVEN} EXCEPTIONS, and the penalty applies {ONLY} if B leaves the box AND DELAYS PLAY, in which case he is charged a strike.

I'm calling BS on that one.

Batter cannot repeatedly switch from one box to the other.
Add a STRIKE to the batter's count.
Batter must stay in the box.
If batter wants to leave the box, call TIME.
Otherwise, batter is not allowed to leave the BOX.
Any questions?

[Dave Hensley]

SAump has become a broken record.

Either that, or he's using an auto-responder in this thread.

[Pete in AZ]

Originally Posted by SAump

Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

d) The following experimental rule shall be in effect for all National Association Leagues in 2006:
(1) The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the batter’s time at bat, unless one of the following exceptions applies, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate:
(i) The batter swings at a pitch;
(ii) The batter is forced out of the batter’s box by a pitch;
(iii) A member of either team requests and is granted “Time”;
(iv) A defensive player attempts a play on a runner at any base;
(v) The batter feints a bunt;
(vi) A wild pitch or passed ball occurs;
(vii) The pitcher leaves the dirt area of the pitching mound after receiving the ball; or
(viii) The catcher leaves the catcher’s box to give defensive signals.
Notwithstanding Rule 6.02(c), if the batter intentionally leaves the batter’s box and delays play, and none of the exceptions listed in Rule 6.02(d)(1)(i) through (viii) applies, the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the pitch. The ball shall remain alive.

What is a National Association League?

I think you are confusing the issue in your shot at redemption. This isn't HS or college ball. Your acting like Colonel Klink with the whole "you need permission to do that" baloney. Watch a game tomorrow and see how many times a player asks for Time and the umpire grants it before he steps out of the box.

JJ, where did you find the ambidextrous pitcher ruling? I can believe that the guy can't switch hands to deliver, but short of having two gloves this seems pretty unrealistic.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

What is a National Association League?
I think you are confusing the issue in your shot at redemption. This isn't HS or college ball. Your acting like Colonel Klink with the whole "you need permission to do that" baloney. Watch a game tomorrow and see how many times a player asks for Time and the umpire grants it before he steps out of the box.

Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Begin with Lance Berkman, Carlos Beltran, Chipper Jones. They have never done it. I know they are today's power switch-hitters.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SAump

Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Begin with Lance Berkman, Carlos Beltran, Chipper Jones. They have never done it. I know they are today's power switch-hitters.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

Because there's no practical or strategic reason for doing so, NOT because it is against the rules.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SAump

Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

Becaue they only do it when when the pitcher throws a rising fastball.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

What is a National Association League?

FYI- A National Association League is any league that is a member of The National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues (ie Minor League Baseball Leagues except the Indy leagues).