Batter out of box

[HawkeyeCubP]

Wow. I'm lurking from the softball board, as I often do, and I must admit that this thread is very interesting to me. This is a more common occurrence in softball than it is in baseball, I believe.

I of course yield to those who have expert clinic/training/working experience in baseball - I just wanted to add my own two cents into the mix on this subject:

I would suggest that - at least in softball - it is not something that is looked at simultaneously with the pitch passing through/not through the strike zone and/or striking the bat - but that it is something that is seen in the approximately 1/4 second immediately following the bat striking the ball - and that it is also, often peripherally detectable whether or not there is a chance the batter will do such a thing (based on a number of variables). This happens often in slow pitch softball (it is a common pitching strategy to make a batter with 2 strikes or an anxious batter to either reach to a pitch that is well outside or step out and away with the front foot to ably contact a pitch that is well inside), and occassionally in fast pitch softball (slap hitters). If it's obvious, it's usually fairly easy to see, at least for me. And if it's both obvious and agregious, I call it.

I realize there are multiple variables between the two/three games that make calling pitches and seeing this violation different - i.e. you want to see a bullet ripped down the line for fair/foul ruling, line drives caught or trapped, shots that hit runners for runner interference, etc. But I would also submit that the bases, and therefore defensive players and offensive baserunners are also further away from the batter (and the ball coming off his/her bat) in baseball.

I would also submit that I've previously worked two years of LL baseball (mostly 14 year-olds) - again - I do not claim to have much knowledge of baseball still, and did actually make this call on a RH batter who squared and bunted - with his right foot completed on and across the plate. I called dead ball, etc., explained why he was out (he was confused - and not a very good bunter - or player in general) and as it was the 3rd out, heard his coach further explain to him what he should try to do differently next time as he was leading him back into the dugout - he had seen it too.

So anyway, my shortened thought is: Glance immediately after the bat hits the ball - not at the same time. Just a thought. I look forward to your responses.

As always, a pleasure to read the baseball board.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Wow. I'm lurking from the softball board, as I often do, and I must admit that this thread is very interesting to me. This is a more common occurrence in softball than it is in baseball, I believe.

I of course yield to those who have expert clinic/training/working experience in baseball - I just wanted to add my own two cents into the mix on this subject:

I would suggest that - at least in softball - it is not something that is looked at simultaneously with the pitch passing through/not through the strike zone and/or striking the bat - but that it is something that is seen in the approximately 1/4 second immediately following the bat striking the ball - and that it is also, often peripherally detectable whether or not there is a chance the batter will do such a thing (based on a number of variables). This happens often in slow pitch softball (it is a common pitching strategy to make a batter with 2 strikes or an anxious batter to either reach to a pitch that is well outside or step out and away with the front foot to ably contact a pitch that is well inside), and occassionally in fast pitch softball (slap hitters). If it's obvious, it's usually fairly easy to see, at least for me. And if it's both obvious and agregious, I call it.

I realize there are multiple variables between the two/three games that make calling pitches and seeing this violation different - i.e. you want to see a bullet ripped down the line for fair/foul ruling, line drives caught or trapped, shots that hit runners for runner interference, etc. But I would also submit that the bases, and therefore defensive players and offensive baserunners are also further away from the batter (and the ball coming off his/her bat) in baseball.

I would also submit that I've previously worked two years of LL baseball (mostly 14 year-olds) - again - I do not claim to have much knowledge of baseball still, and did actually make this call on a RH batter who squared and bunted - with his right foot completed on and across the plate. I called dead ball, etc., explained why he was out (he was confused - and not a very good bunter - or player in general) and as it was the 3rd out, heard his coach further explain to him what he should try to do differently next time as he was leading him back into the dugout - he had seen it too.

So anyway, my shortened thought is: Glance immediately after the bat hits the ball - not at the same time. Just a thought. I look forward to your responses.

As always, a pleasure to read the baseball board.

1. So you know where the batter's foot was after contact with the ball. We should change the rule to read "the batter is out when his bat makes contat with a pitched ball if his foot is completely out of the batter's box within a second or so after said contact."

2. After a batter hits a pitched ball, I have more important things to do than take my eye off the ball, namely, keeping my eye on the ball, especially on a bunt attempt.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by GarthB

1. So you know where the batter's foot was after contact with the ball. We should change the rule to read "the batter is out when his bat makes contat with a pitched ball if his foot is completely out of the batter's box within a second or so after said contact."

If a batter's foot is still pivoting in the dirt from a swing (- the most common)and/or the foot is still planted and is now pushing off the dirt to start running to 1B (and I'm positive it wasn't in the air during the contact) and/or and/or coming up from the dirt to start running to first base (and I'm positive it wasn't in the air during the contact - and I can see the entire cleat-print under the shoe/where the shoe was - also pretty easy to see) - I'm suggesting that more often than not, depending what type of swing/swinger it is/was, it's usually pretty easy for me to detect whether or not they violated the rule - agregiously or not - when the bat made contact with the ball.

In my mind, it's somewhat similar to other events that happen on the field of play which occur when the ball is arriving at/around the strike zone that I'm responsible for seeing from time to time when I'm PU - especially when working in a one-person system - i.e. a runner not being in contact with a base when the ball is hit; contact between catcher and batter on pickoff/steal attempts; a batter offering/not offering on a pitch that is a ball. These things often do require I pay attention to 2 things at once, or at least very close to doing so.

Originally Posted by GarthB

2. After a batter hits a pitched ball, I have more important things to do than take my eye off the ball, namely, keeping my eye on the ball, especially on a bunt attempt.

I completely understand what you're saying - and I would also submit that, especially on things such as bunts and anything else where an immediate fair/foul ruling may be necessary, that I would obviously not take my eye at all off the ball.