Crazy Situation - Need opinions

[Chukinrox]

This occurred in a game abotu two weeks ago.

Bases loaded. No outs. Batter hits a grounder towards SS. Runenr from second is goign towards third and his helmit falls off. The ball goes INSIDE of the helmit causing it to spin. When the helmit stops spinning the ball is still inside. After 10 minutes of discussing the play and making a few phone calls to find a ruling, the umpires ruled it a ground rule double. How they came up with ground rule double..... I HAVE NO CLUE. I would say the helmit becoms part of the playing field if the ball did not become lodged in the helmit. Since it was inside the helmit the ball has to be called dead right away, but how can you award the offensive team anythign if the ball became dead because of the offense? Any Ideas?

[johnnyg08]

Yikes...I have no idea...this will be interesting and it's too late for me to dig into a rule book...nice post!

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Chukinrox

This occurred in a game abotu two weeks ago.

Bases loaded. No outs. Batter hits a grounder towards SS. Runenr from second is goign towards third and his helmit falls off. The ball goes INSIDE of the helmit causing it to spin. When the helmit stops spinning the ball is still inside. After 10 minutes of discussing the play and making a few phone calls to find a ruling, the umpires ruled it a ground rule double. How they came up with ground rule double..... I HAVE NO CLUE. I would say the helmit becoms part of the playing field if the ball did not become lodged in the helmit. Since it was inside the helmit the ball has to be called dead right away, but how can you award the offensive team anythign if the ball became dead because of the offense? Any Ideas?

It is a part of the field, you are correct. It is now lodged in the playing field, (kind of like the fence) which is probably why the crew awarded 2 bases.

May have to go with 9.01c on this one though. I'd probably just stick the runner at first, everyone advances if forced.

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

It is a part of the field, you are correct. It is now lodged in the playing field, (kind of like the fence) which is probably why the crew awarded 2 bases.

May have to go with 9.01c on this one though. I'd probably just stick the runner at first, everyone advances if forced.

In Kansas City a few years ago, a batted ball became lodged in a cup down the line. The award was 2 bases. This sounds very similar to me.

[spots101]

helmit

FYI - It's helmet.

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

In Kansas City a few years ago, a batted ball became lodged in a cup down the line. The award was 2 bases. This sounds very similar to me.

It happened in Oakland on August 8, 2001....can't find a good story on it but I found that information. And yes, the award was 2 bases, much to Art Howe's dismay.

[Dave Hensley]

The rationale is that a fair ball that becomes lodged in a foreign object - such as a beer cup blown on the field or a fallen helmet or the ivy in Wrigley Field or the rafters of the Astrodome - is a fair batted ball that has gone into dead ball territory, and the rulebook award is two bases.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

The rationale is that a fair ball that becomes lodged in a foreign object - such as a beer cup blown on the field or a fallen helmet or the ivy in Wrigley Field or the rafters of the Astrodome - is a fair batted ball that has gone into dead ball territory, and the rulebook award is two bases.

Is a ball that's in a helmet a lodged ball? I would think that if the ball is "loose" in the helmet and the helmet is upside down, that the ball is still live.

JMO, though.

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by mattmets

It happened in Oakland on August 8, 2001....can't find a good story on it but I found that information. And yes, the award was 2 bases, much to Art Howe's dismay.

Shoot!!! I was almost 99% sure it was August 9th! Damn.

[Chukinrox]

I understand that the ball must be caleld dead right away but it is kind of ridiculous to award the batter runner second because another runner didn't keep his HELMET (not helmit) on his head. If this is the case, then why not have the runner on second always let the HELMET slip off his head. Batters are responsible for their backswing if a catcher is trying to throw arunner out at third, why isn't a runner resposible for his HELMET? If the offensive teams on deck batter leaves a bat in a live ball area and that bat causes the ball to become dead, are you goign to award the runners two bases as well?...

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

Shoot!!! I was almost 99% sure it was August 9th! Damn.

I said that in case anyone wanted to go and look up the game to see how it was handled.

With the responses I get on this board, it's no surprise so many of you constantly complain about coaches complaining.

[tiger49]

I probably would have just given the BR first and all other runners move up one base. This is based on the new (2003) interp. http://worldumpires.com/news/082103RuleInterp.htm

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Yeah. It is very similar to getting lodged in a fence or something. It's not covered in the book, but any umpire as the authority to rule on any point not covered in the book.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by tiger49

I probably would have just given the BR first and all other runners move up one base. This is based on the new (2003) interp. http://worldumpires.com/news/082103RuleInterp.htm

If you were going to consider the ball "lodged", i would go with this interp.

If you want to accept the Jenkins theory (which i'm leaning towards), then live ball.

[spots101]

Originally Posted by Chukinrox

HELMET (not helmit)

No need for all the caps dude. It was just for your information.