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-   -   Crazy Situation - Need opinions (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/27548-crazy-situation-need-opinions.html)

Chukinrox Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:05pm

Crazy Situation - Need opinions
 
This occurred in a game abotu two weeks ago.

Bases loaded. No outs. Batter hits a grounder towards SS. Runenr from second is goign towards third and his helmit falls off. The ball goes INSIDE of the helmit causing it to spin. When the helmit stops spinning the ball is still inside. After 10 minutes of discussing the play and making a few phone calls to find a ruling, the umpires ruled it a ground rule double. How they came up with ground rule double..... I HAVE NO CLUE. I would say the helmit becoms part of the playing field if the ball did not become lodged in the helmit. Since it was inside the helmit the ball has to be called dead right away, but how can you award the offensive team anythign if the ball became dead because of the offense? Any Ideas?

johnnyg08 Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:15pm

Yikes...I have no idea...this will be interesting and it's too late for me to dig into a rule book...nice post!

TussAgee11 Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chukinrox
This occurred in a game abotu two weeks ago.

Bases loaded. No outs. Batter hits a grounder towards SS. Runenr from second is goign towards third and his helmit falls off. The ball goes INSIDE of the helmit causing it to spin. When the helmit stops spinning the ball is still inside. After 10 minutes of discussing the play and making a few phone calls to find a ruling, the umpires ruled it a ground rule double. How they came up with ground rule double..... I HAVE NO CLUE. I would say the helmit becoms part of the playing field if the ball did not become lodged in the helmit. Since it was inside the helmit the ball has to be called dead right away, but how can you award the offensive team anythign if the ball became dead because of the offense? Any Ideas?

It is a part of the field, you are correct. It is now lodged in the playing field, (kind of like the fence) which is probably why the crew awarded 2 bases.

May have to go with 9.01c on this one though. I'd probably just stick the runner at first, everyone advances if forced.

mrm21711 Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TussAgee11
It is a part of the field, you are correct. It is now lodged in the playing field, (kind of like the fence) which is probably why the crew awarded 2 bases.

May have to go with 9.01c on this one though. I'd probably just stick the runner at first, everyone advances if forced.


In Kansas City a few years ago, a batted ball became lodged in a cup down the line. The award was 2 bases. This sounds very similar to me.

spots101 Mon Jul 24, 2006 01:10am

Quote:

helmit

FYI - It's helmet.

mattmets Mon Jul 24, 2006 06:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrm21711
In Kansas City a few years ago, a batted ball became lodged in a cup down the line. The award was 2 bases. This sounds very similar to me.

It happened in Oakland on August 8, 2001....can't find a good story on it but I found that information. And yes, the award was 2 bases, much to Art Howe's dismay.

Dave Hensley Mon Jul 24, 2006 08:10am

The rationale is that a fair ball that becomes lodged in a foreign object - such as a beer cup blown on the field or a fallen helmet or the ivy in Wrigley Field or the rafters of the Astrodome - is a fair batted ball that has gone into dead ball territory, and the rulebook award is two bases.

bob jenkins Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley
The rationale is that a fair ball that becomes lodged in a foreign object - such as a beer cup blown on the field or a fallen helmet or the ivy in Wrigley Field or the rafters of the Astrodome - is a fair batted ball that has gone into dead ball territory, and the rulebook award is two bases.

Is a ball that's in a helmet a lodged ball? I would think that if the ball is "loose" in the helmet and the helmet is upside down, that the ball is still live.

JMO, though.

mrm21711 Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
It happened in Oakland on August 8, 2001....can't find a good story on it but I found that information. And yes, the award was 2 bases, much to Art Howe's dismay.

Shoot!!! I was almost 99% sure it was August 9th! Damn.

Chukinrox Mon Jul 24, 2006 01:12pm

Unfair Ruling.... No?
 
I understand that the ball must be caleld dead right away but it is kind of ridiculous to award the batter runner second because another runner didn't keep his HELMET (not helmit) on his head. If this is the case, then why not have the runner on second always let the HELMET slip off his head. Batters are responsible for their backswing if a catcher is trying to throw arunner out at third, why isn't a runner resposible for his HELMET? If the offensive teams on deck batter leaves a bat in a live ball area and that bat causes the ball to become dead, are you goign to award the runners two bases as well?...

mattmets Mon Jul 24, 2006 01:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrm21711
Shoot!!! I was almost 99% sure it was August 9th! Damn.

I said that in case anyone wanted to go and look up the game to see how it was handled.

With the responses I get on this board, it's no surprise so many of you constantly complain about coaches complaining.

tiger49 Mon Jul 24, 2006 03:19pm

I probably would have just given the BR first and all other runners move up one base. This is based on the new (2003) interp. http://worldumpires.com/news/082103RuleInterp.htm

LLPA13UmpDan Mon Jul 24, 2006 03:34pm

Yeah. It is very similar to getting lodged in a fence or something. It's not covered in the book, but any umpire as the authority to rule on any point not covered in the book. :D

bossman72 Mon Jul 24, 2006 04:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger49
I probably would have just given the BR first and all other runners move up one base. This is based on the new (2003) interp. http://worldumpires.com/news/082103RuleInterp.htm


If you were going to consider the ball "lodged", i would go with this interp.

If you want to accept the Jenkins theory (which i'm leaning towards), then live ball.

spots101 Mon Jul 24, 2006 07:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chukinrox
HELMET (not helmit)

No need for all the caps dude. It was just for your information.


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