Tournament Ejection Penalty?

[Blue37]

I was working a tournament (14u) earlier this summer and a player was ejected. The Tournament Director reported the ejection to the District Director and was told any ejection resulted in an automatic disqualification for the remainder of the tournament.

They played again the next afternoon. The disqualified player was there, but was in street clothes. During the top of the first inning, the Tournament Director received a phone call from the District Director stating the previous ruling was incorrect and the player could participate in the tournament. The opposing coach protested and the State Director was contacted. The State Director ruled in favor of the District Director. The player suited up and played the rest of the game (they lost and were eliminated).

This was a Dixie tournament. How are situations like this handled in other organizations? Are there automatic additional penalties (suspensions/disqualifications) for ejections? One game? Remainder of the tournament? Are additional penalties handled on a case-by-case basis?

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Im not 100% but I know LL coaches have to sit out the next game and there is no replacement for them. Not sure about players

[pdxblue]

Why would you care how it is handled?

I take the lineup from the coach. I let play whoever he puts in. If he played an "disqualified" player (who I didn't eject in THAT game), that is the coaches/players/tournament directors problem to deal with. I don't care one way or another.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Im not 100% but I know LL coaches have to sit out the next game and there is no replacement for them. Not sure about players

LL players also have to sit another game.

In HS ball(at least in Michigan) the coac is done for the day AND the next DAY. I once ejected a coach in game one of a tournament...heh heh heh....five game ejection. I think a player gets the rest of today and the next game instead of the next game.

I have never heard of a tournament that did not at least suspend a player for an extra game after an ejection.

Joe

[Hock9]

This is an admittedly personal opinion, and should by no means be construed as any kind of an official rule: some kid, U14 or thereabouts, who gets booted out of a game should be prohibited from playing in at least the next game (possibly more depending upon the nature of the ejection). If the coaches and parents can't teach the kids that they need to behave, then I guess the tournament committee needs to.

[TussAgee11]

PDX - don't you have a problem when they insert somebody that was not on the original lineup card? If they didn't write his name down to start, I doubt any DA or TD would let them play, much less an umpire.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

Why would you care how it is handled?

I take the lineup from the coach. I let play whoever he puts in. If he played an "disqualified" player (who I didn't eject in THAT game), that is the coaches/players/tournament directors problem to deal with. I don't care one way or another.

I understand your opinion here.

BUT, if I KNOW a player is ineligible, I am going to nip it in the bud. I would MUCH rather have the tournament director deal with an ineligible player BEFORE the game begins so that I don't have to be involved in cleaning up the bag full of crap that would ensue if he does play.

Joe

[DG]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I was working a tournament (14u) earlier this summer and a player was ejected. The Tournament Director reported the ejection to the District Director and was told any ejection resulted in an automatic disqualification for the remainder of the tournament.

They played again the next afternoon. The disqualified player was there, but was in street clothes. During the top of the first inning, the Tournament Director received a phone call from the District Director stating the previous ruling was incorrect and the player could participate in the tournament. The opposing coach protested and the State Director was contacted. The State Director ruled in favor of the District Director. The player suited up and played the rest of the game (they lost and were eliminated).

This was a Dixie tournament. How are situations like this handled in other organizations? Are there automatic additional penalties (suspensions/disqualifications) for ejections? One game? Remainder of the tournament? Are additional penalties handled on a case-by-case basis?

Not aware of any such rule in Babe Ruth baseball. One game suspension is just that. And if I was District Director I would not be pleased with the TD going over my head, who I have not doubt already discussed with if I was sure of the ruling. If I was coach of the player I would have appealed the ruling when it was provided to me, well ahead of the starting lineup being provided at game time.

[BigUmp56]

I work American Legion tournaments where any participant whose been ejected is done for the remainder of the tournament unless the TD decides to re-instate the player. This is the wording found in the AML rule book, and I have to say I think it's bu11$h1t that a TD has the authority to reinstate an ejected player.

Any player who, in the judgment of the umpire, maliciously runs into another player is automatically ejected and is declared out. The American Legion is concerned that some coaches may not have explained to their players that malicious contact is illegal. The majority of intentional collisions occur at home plate where the catcher is blocking the plate. Runners should be instructed to slide directly to the plate, or away from the catcher, to avoid making contact with the catcher, especially when the defender is in possession of the ball. Umpires have been instructed that, if there is any intentional and excessive force or if there is any intent to injure another player, the offending player shall be ejected from the game. The malicious contact penalty will be enforced whether committed by an offensive or defensive player. Any player ejected by an umpire is automatically removed from the tournament, unless the Tournament Director reinstates that player.


DG is right as far as Babe Ruth/Cal Ripken is concerned. There is no mandated suspension other than the game from which they were ejected.


LL has a one game mandatory suspension for an ejection.



Tim.

[pdxblue]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

PDX - don't you have a problem when they insert somebody that was not on the original lineup card? If they didn't write his name down to start, I doubt any DA or TD would let them play, much less an umpire.

Re-read my post.

If the name is on the roster he gives me, I will let them play. Any coach who will put a disqualified player on his roster then play him deserves to forfeit the game if it is appealed later.

BUT, none of that is MY concern!!! I have other more importand things to deal with on the field than to follow who is disqualified and who isn't.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

Re-read my post.

If the name is on the roster he gives me, I will let them play. Any coach who will put a disqualified player on his roster then play him deserves to forfeit the game if it is appealed later.

BUT, none of that is MY concern!!! I have other more importand things to deal with on the field than to follow who is disqualified and who isn't.

I would much rather prevent a bag from being filled with crap than to have one dumped in my lap.

If you KNOW a player is ineligible and you do nothing, you are helping the team break the rules. Why help them make a mockery of the game?

Furthermore, I would eject any coach that placed a disqualified player on the lineup card if he did so knowingly. That is a CLEAR example of unsportsmanlike behavior.

Joe

[BigUmp56]

I agree with the LL policy on protests. This is a situation I would most definetly try to head off before it became a problem.


NOTE 2: All Little League officials are urged to take precautions to prevent protests. When a protest situation is imminent, the potential offender should be notified immediately.

Example: should a manager, official scorer, league official or umpire discover that a pitcher is ineligible at the beginning of a game, or will become ineligible during the game or at the start of the next inning of play; the fact should be brought to the attention of the manager of the team involved. Such action should not be delayed until the infraction has occurred.


Tim.

[mcrowder]

I find myself in the odd position of supporting pdxblue and disagreeing with washburn. Odd.

JW - any issues regarding player eligibility need to be handled completely outside the fences and completely before the game. We are handed rosters to start the game. If there's an ineligible player on that roster, it is certainly not the umpire's job to fix or even bring up. If the coach wants to add a player to that roster midgame, it depends on the ruleset you're playing under - some allow, some don't. The umpire needs to simply follow the rules here.

As to the TD reinstating this player DURING the game, that was a poor call. I can see him reinstating before the game or even after the game. But depending on what this player does for his team, it could very well be that the opposing coach made certain decisions based on the fact that this player was not eligible. It's entirely unfair to change that during the course of a game.

If the coach felt like he had a case for reinstatement, he needed to handle it in a timely manner so that it could be decided before gametime.

[TussAgee11]

PWL - I must have misunderstood your post. Any disqualification of a player should be handled before the game, by TD or DA. What I was referring to was a TD or DA coming up to me during the game and telling me that so and so needs to be put on the lineup card, and become eligible. If he wasn't on there to start, I have a problem with simply sticking him on there.

If the player was DQ'd, but still put on the lineup by the manager, not my problem. I agree with you and mcrowder.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I find myself in the odd position of supporting pdxblue and disagreeing with washburn. Odd.

Disagreeing with me? Poor choice, very poor choice.

JW - any issues regarding player eligibility need to be handled completely outside the fences and completely before the game. We are handed rosters to start the game. If there's an ineligible player on that roster, it is certainly not the umpire's job to fix or even bring up.

I agree to a certain extent. If I suspect an ineligible player, I would do as you say.

However, what if i know a player is ineligible, I should just let the cheaters play on?

If I KNOW a coach is breaking the rules and I do nothing then I am his accomplice.

Joe