God, the First Amendment and the Umpire

[SanDiegoSteve]

I'm not going to debate what's what and who's who. You are saying that you were taught in Catholic school that the the Bible is full of untrue stories and parables, and I am saying that Evangelicals, Baptists, Pentecostals, and most other Christian denominations do not hold this view. We take the Bible at its Word.

My first wife was a Catholic. My current wife's family consists of mostly Catholics (Sicilian family), although most have renounced Catholicism and became born again Christians, as they never even opened their Bibles while Catholics. I have been to many masses over the years, celebrated the Eucharist, and studied the religion quite a bit, so I do know what I'm talking about.

For entertainment and historical purposes, I read some of the books that the Catholic Church includes as canonical, but are not recognized as such by the Protestant Bible. I love reading 1st and 2nd Maccabes, Tobit, and Wisdom, for example. They are not included in the Torah because they were not considered inspired words of God, but were historically accurate and significant.

I also study the vast differences between Catholicism and Christianity. We love our Catholic brethren, but the differences in how we worship are like night and day.

I suggest reading "The Signs of The Coming of Christ" by Gary Frazier to give you an idea of what is going on behind the scenes at the Vatican, and with the Catholic Church's attempt at a "one-world religion," with tolerance for just about everyone. It is not Catholics that we have a problem with, it is the leadership at the top levels which most Catholics and other Christians are completely naive about.

And yes, the book of Revelation is considered "symbolic only" by the Catholic Church, although many are changing their viewpoint on this of late. It says so right in the Catholic Bible sitting beside me. In your Catholic Bible, refer to the Introduction to The Revalation to John, in the first five paragraphs especially, where it tells us that the book cannot be adaquately understood except for historical background, and that it applies to the Roman persecution of the early church. This view is only held by Catholics and the Orthodox Churches, not the Protestant denominations.

Here are some places which discuss the differences between Catholicism and mainstream Christianity:

http://christianprogress.com/12.htm

Please read this one for sure!:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_capr.htm

And this one for even more clarity:

http://www.raleighccc.org/HarvestJou...ristianity.htm

Pay particular attention to the conclusion of the above article.

By the way, I am one of the Christians that feel we are all brothers working for the common good, when you come to that one!

[GarthB]

Someone, please, close this thread. Please.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Just go read something else. Just good old American freedom of speech goin' on here.

You apparently are as familiar with the U.S. Constitution as you are with Catholicism. You are protected from the the government infringing on your speech, not from the owners of an internet site, or your wife, or your boss or me.


Dear Moderators....please close this thread.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Are you sure you're a Christian? Because you sure are un-Christian-like.

I am very familiar with both, thank you Mr. Rhodes Scholar.

[SanDiegoSteve]

What, do the moderators do whatever Garthy says? How sweet!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Yes moderators, by all means, let's do whatever Garth says to do. After all, it's really his forum. No other opinions need apply.

[Dave Hensley]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my neighbors one time. Went for years thinking he was just a regular guy like me and everybody else in the neighborhood, then we got to talking about politics. This guy was OUT THERE, he was one of those black-helicopters and Trilateral Commission conspiracy theorists who was clearly on his way to a Timothy McVeigh mindset, with a good dose of the Unabomer thrown in.

Takes all kinds to fill the freeways, I guess.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

My first wife was a Catholic. My current wife's family consists of mostly Catholics (Sicilian family), although most have renounced Catholicism and became born again Christians, as they never even opened their Bibles while Catholics. I have been to many masses over the years, celebrated the Eucharist, and studied the religion quite a bit, so I do know what I'm talking about.

If you knew what you were talking about, then you'd know "masses" is always capitalized.

...the vast differences between Catholicism and Christianity.

This is an oxymoronic statement. There cannot be differences "between" Catholicism and Christianity because Catholicism is but one denomination of Christianity. Seriously now, Steve, your ignorance of Catholicism and dare I say, Christianity, is appalling. You're sounding like many of those of the Religious Right, which is not easy for me to say, considering that I tend to be a conservative individual ideologically and socially.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

If you knew what you were talking about, then you'd know "masses" is always capitalized.




This is an oxymoronic statement. There cannot be differences "between" Catholicism and Christianity because Catholicism is but one denomination of Christianity. Seriously now, Steve, your ignorance of Catholicism and dare I say, Christianity, is appalling. You're sounding like many of those of the Religious Right, which is not easy for me to say, considering that I tend to be a conservative individual ideologically and socially.

Did you even click on any of the links I provided? I'm not alone in this. Saying that Catholicism is but one denomination of Christianity is false. It share principles with mainstream, evangelical, Protestant Christianity, but its differences are many and significant. If you don't understand this, then you are ignorant of Protestant denominations. Go do the research, I have already. Like I said, my ex-wife, my current wife, my wife's aunt who we care for in our home, and my wife's family are CATHOLIC. I have studied the differences between the two. How can you say I don't know what I'm talking about. Go read the sites I gave you, and then come back and say it's just me. There cannot be differences? What in the world does that mean? That's like saying that Porsches and Mercedes are both cars, so they are identical, and have no differences. Catholics and mainstream Christians have many philosophical differences. Too many to list. Go to the links.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Did you even click on any of the links I provided? I'm not alone in this. Saying that Catholicism is but one denomination of Christianity is false. It share principles with mainstream, evangelical, Protestant Christianity, but its differences are many and significant. If you don't understand this, then you are ignorant of Protestant denominations. Go do the research, I have already. Like I said, my ex-wife, my current wife, my wife's aunt who we care for in our home, and my wife's family are CATHOLIC. I have studied the differences between the two. How can you say I don't know what I'm talking about. Go read the sites I gave you, and then come back and say it's just me. There cannot be differences? What in the world does that mean? That's like saying that Porsches and Mercedes are both cars, so they are identical, and have no differences. Catholics and mainstream Christians have many philosophical differences. Too many to list. Go to the links.

Your links and other bloviating pronouncements are patently and utterly false and therefore irrelevant. I've been patient with your glaring ignorance, Steve, but now you're insulting me and your wife and relatives, I might add, with your stupid comments that Catholics are not Christians. We are. Period, your lack of knowledge about the definition of Christianity notwithstanding. A bigger popinjay I haven't seen around here in some time.

Catholics believe, like every other Christian, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, our Savior. We worship Jesus as the Son of God and the Lord Himself. We are Christians. I'm truly shocked that you cannot grasp this irrefutable and unmistakable fact. Christianity is the tree trunk, and Catholicism is but one of its many branches. I'll say it for the umpteenth time: Catholicism is but one of many Christian denominations. As is Episcopalian, Methodist, etc. Anyone with a modicum of common sense can see this. I don't know what garbage you've been "studying"--probably something written by such overly arrogant people like Robertson et. al.--but it's filling your mind with BS.

In the FWIW category, your links damage any credibility you might have otherwise had. I stopped reading and paying serious attention to such anti-Catholic vile years ago. I'm used to it from those on the proselytizing Religious Right, who so arrogantly believe that they are the chosen ones of a sort. I'd suggest using a different playbook, for that one's quite old.

[lmathews19]

I'm very shocked to find a religious debate going on in an official's forum. I have enjoyed reading what others have written, however. The truth is, we can sit and debate and argue over who's what all day long....but the more important question is how do we live our lives. We can have all the right beliefs of what the Bible says and be right on in our theology, but if we do not live like-Christ (whether we adhere to Catholic beliefs, or protestant beliefs) then our belief is in vain. In the words of James, "Faith without works is dead". I know people who are Catholic that I believe are Christian and live right. I also know former Catholics who have converted to Christianity that say there is no way that Catholics are Christians. I say it's how one lives their life. BTW, Christ Himself did not adhere to one of the specific religious sects during his day (Saducees, Pharisees, Zealots), but He lived a right life. Don't get caught up in beliefs, get caught up in how you live. Religion is so difficult to speak about in America today because it is so subjective to people. Is the Bible literal or symbolic? The answer is "Yes". In some places it's literal, in others it's symbolic (e.g. "Revelation"). Some of Jesus' teachings were literal, others were symbolic. It is our responsibility to study for ourselves and determine which is which, but with our knowledge must come a changed life. Christianity was not meant to be learned about, but to change your life. Jesus is not interested in what you know, but how you live!

I always have trouble closing my eyes and kind of flinching at the high/inside pitch when I'm in the slot, any solutions or does it just come with more time and telling yourself to quit being a wimp?

[UMP25]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a religious discussion in its own thread, lm. It's better than going off track in another thread. I do believe it's rather inappropriate, however, when someone whom one has respected turns it into an attack, based on false claims, of the largest Christian denomination in the U.S.

[lmathews19]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I don't think there's anything wrong with a religious discussion in its own thread, lm. It's better than going off track in another thread. I do believe it's rather inappropriate, however, when someone whom one has respected turns it into an attack, based on false claims, of the largest Christian denomination in the U.S.

I think there will be many Catholics in Heaven Ump25! I also think there will be many Protestants in Hell (my point...it's how you live!) Don't let anybody get under your skin based on words they type bro, just live right for the name of Jesus and you will be just fine. Whether you break bread in mass or in the Baptist fellowship hall!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by lmathews19

I always have trouble closing my eyes and kind of flinching at the high/inside pitch when I'm in the slot, any solutions or does it just come with more time and telling yourself to quit being a wimp?

It comes down to whether or not you fully trust the guy squatting in front of you. If he instills confidence in you, you can go without flinching. If he lets every other pitch hit you, doesn't put any effort into blocking balls or going up to get the high and tight ones, it can tend to make one a bit flinchy.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Your links and other bloviating pronouncements are patently and utterly false and therefore irrelevant. I've been patient with your glaring ignorance, Steve, but now you're insulting me and your wife and relatives, I might add, with your stupid comments that Catholics are not Christians. We are. Period, your lack of knowledge about the definition of Christianity notwithstanding. A bigger popinjay I haven't seen around here in some time.

Catholics believe, like every other Christian, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, our Savior. We worship Jesus as the Son of God and the Lord Himself. We are Christians. I'm truly shocked that you cannot grasp this irrefutable and unmistakable fact. Christianity is the tree trunk, and Catholicism is but one of its many branches. I'll say it for the umpteenth time: Catholicism is but one of many Christian denominations. As is Episcopalian, Methodist, etc. Anyone with a modicum of common sense can see this. I don't know what garbage you've been "studying"--probably something written by such overly arrogant people like Robertson et. al.--but it's filling your mind with BS.

In the FWIW category, your links damage any credibility you might have otherwise had. I stopped reading and paying serious attention to such anti-Catholic vile years ago. I'm used to it from those on the proselytizing Religious Right, who so arrogantly believe that they are the chosen ones of a sort. I'd suggest using a different playbook, for that one's quite old.

Hey, not once did I bash your religion. I said there are differences. You choose to believe that there are none. You are the one with the veins popping out of your neck on this one, buddy. Calling me stupid is not an appropriate response. I never said you were stupid for believing the way you do. It is just different. On issues. So what? If you think Catholics and Protestants believe the same way, then why was there ever any Protestant movement to begin with. To claim there are no differences is burying your head in the sand. I didn't say "well you're wrong to believe your way" did I? NO, I DIDN'T! I am not saying any anti-Catholic vile, as you put it. The links I posted merely point out the various distinctions between the two branches, as you call them. There are differences between Methodists and Baptists, between Episcopalians and Lutherans. Of course there are differences between Catholics and non-Catholics. Why do you deny the existence of these differences?

You need to settle down and relax, dude, before you snap. People are different, and have different beliefs. That's a good thing. To each their own.
What I happen to believe is not going to change. I am not going to try to change you, either. I don't know you, so it is of little consequence what you believe.

Yes, Catholics believe in Jesus, and that He died for our sins, and that He sits at the right hand of God the Father. In that we can, and should celebrate the similarity. Yes, Catholics are part of Christianity. However, the distinction between Catholics and Protestants was made long before you or I came along. Please don't blame me for pointing out that we are different.