Balk question?

[Hobe]

I have a question on balks that started a debate between umps and coaches in a youth league game. Umps are volunteers without any formal training or experience.

Basic situation:
Have R1 and pitcher is pitching from the stretch, pitcher steps towards 1B and makes throw. The move to first is a slow move, not much intent just moving the runner back.

Ump calls a balk, when asked for clarification Ump states that the pitcher didn't break contact with the rubber as he threw over. Ump states that you MUST break contact with the rubber as part of the throw, his example was a jump pivot or shuffle.

The pitcher's flexibility (youth) allowed him to step toward first and make the throw without much movement of post leg.

My question, is it required that the foot break contact as part of the act of throwing or only that pitcher first stride towards the base. I have read rule 8.05 but have been told that it is the unwritten part that is in question.

If I haven't made this clear I apologize, and I will thank you now for any opinions or official clarifications that are offered.

[UmpJM]

Hobe,

The ump is making stuff up. As described, there is no balk. The ump may be laboring under the fairly common misconception that a RHP may not throw to 1B without first disengaging or using a "jab step" or "jump turn/spin" move. It's simply not true.

JM

[Hobe]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Hobe,

The ump is making stuff up. As described, there is no balk. The ump may be laboring under the fairly common misconception that a RHP may not throw to 1B without first disengaging or using a "jab step" or "jump turn/spin" move. It's simply not true.

JM

This is the exact argument that was given by the Ump, fortunately the call had no impact on the game, I just want to know the real deal.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by Hobe

I have a question on balks that started a debate between umps and coaches in a youth league game. Umps are volunteers without any formal training or experience.

Basic situation:
Have R1 and pitcher is pitching from the stretch, pitcher steps towards 1B and makes throw. The move to first is a slow move, not much intent just moving the runner back.

Ump calls a balk, when asked for clarification Ump states that the pitcher didn't break contact with the rubber as he threw over. Ump states that you MUST break contact with the rubber as part of the throw, his example was a jump pivot or shuffle.

The pitcher's flexibility (youth) allowed him to step toward first and make the throw without much movement of post leg.

My question, is it required that the foot break contact as part of the act of throwing or only that pitcher first stride towards the base. I have read rule 8.05 but have been told that it is the unwritten part that is in question.

If I haven't made this clear I apologize, and I will thank you now for any opinions or official clarifications that are offered.

The umpire should be taken out and shot.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

The umpire should be taken out and shot.

A bit harsh, wouldn't ya say Dave? Remember, he is a volunteer with no training.
Maybe if they were to train their umpires. Hmmmm....UMPIRE

[Hobe]

I really appreciate the feedback, even the harsh

The tough part with the whole balk call is that it is a call that can't really be questioned, it is a judgement call. The individuals in this case didn't want to hear about the wording in the rules, it was the unwritten part that applied.

I had another balk call where the Ump said it was a balk because the pitcher turned the wrong direction on a move to second. Said it had to be counter clockwise, that you couldn't turn clockwise.

After the inning we discussed it and he acknowledge that he may have been in error.

I have lurked here for a long time and can almost always find what I need with a search, but I need help with the unwritten stuff.

[UmpJM]

Hobe,

Two of the best investments I have ever made in regard to "the unwritten stuff" was acquiring copies of "The Rules of Professional Baseball", written by Chris Jaksa and Rick Roder (aka J/R):

http://www.rulesofbaseball.com/

and "Baseball Rule Differences" (aka BRD), written by Carl Childress:

http://shop.officiating.com/x/product/brd2006

The vast majority (though not necessarily ALL) of the unwritten stuff can be found in these two books.

In regard to your statement regarding balk calls not being "questionable", I say Balderdash!!! If the umpire misapplies the rules in calling a balk, it is both appealable and protestable. If he errs in judgement, it is neither. If the umpire doesn't want to hear about it, that's his prerogative. As the manager, your prerogative is to say, "I protest"; then return to your dugout.

JM

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Hobe,

Two of the best investments I have ever made in regard to "the unwritten stuff" was acquiring copies of "The Rules of Professional Baseball", written by Chris Jaksa and Rick Roder (aka J/R):

http://www.rulesofbaseball.com/

and "Baseball Rule Differences" (aka BRD), written by Carl Childress:

http://shop.officiating.com/x/product/brd2006

The vast majority (though not necessarily ALL) of the unwritten stuff can be found in these two books.

In regard to your statement regarding balk calls not being "questionable", I say Balderdash!!! If the umpire misapplies the rules in calling a balk, it is both appealable and protestable. If he errs in judgement, it is neither. If the umpire doesn't want to hear about it, that's his prerogative. As the manager, your prerogative is to say, "I protest"; then return to your dugout.

JM

Another invaluable resource, specifically addressing this thread's topic, pitching regulations and balks, is the Jim Evans video that can be purchased here.