Delayed Dead Ball or Not?

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I won't presume to speak for Evans, but FED does have a third "status" for the ball, in addition to live and dead, and signalling that status has its own mechanic (fist held out to the side). THIS is what OBR does not have.

The concept of calling "time" at the end of playing action in order to enforce a penalty might be (and often is) labeled "delayed dead," but that's not the language of the OBR.

The trick is to use the concept without suggesting that the ball has a distinct status unavailable under OBR.

That's all well and good, but if we're only talking semantics, we might as well be discussing why it's catcher's interference in OBR and catcher's obstruction in FED. It's the same offense, and it's the same enforcement - delayed dead - whether we call it that or not.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

That's all well and good, but if we're only talking semantics, we might as well be discussing why it's catcher's interference in OBR and catcher's obstruction in FED. It's the same offense, and it's the same enforcement - delayed dead - whether we call it that or not.

I think it is more accurate to deal with as Evans teaches. Will the ball ALWAYS become dead on catcher's interferenece? Or will it either be dead or live depending on circumstances? If it is not assuredly to become dead, that is, it may remain live, then why would you want to always call it delayed dead?

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I think it is more accurate to deal with as Evans teaches. Will the ball ALWAYS become dead on catcher's interferenece? Or will it either be dead or live depending on circumstances? If it is not assuredly to become dead, that is, it may remain live, then why would you want to always call it delayed dead?

I think it's fair to answer yes, the ball always becomes dead on catcher's interference - at the end of the play. At the end of the play, the proper enforcement is applied. The concept of "delayed dead" is simply there, and simply taught, to teach umpires to NOT immediately kill the ball when you have "delayed dead" infractions such as umpire interference, catcher interference, batter interference, balks, coach assistance interference, and type B obstruction.

This comment from Evans in describing umpire interference is pretty telling, if you ask me:

The rule book mistakenly states in both 2.00 Interference and in the prefix of 5.09(b) that the ball is dead. The ball is not dead until the result of the play is known (a delayed dead ball). At that time, the proper enforcement of
the rule should follow.

This statement by Evans seems to answer your question as I have, with a "yes."

I just fail to see the purpose or any educational benefit of stressing that "delayed dead ball" is not in the OBR, when the enforcement principle of delayed dead ball most assuredly is.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I think it's fair to answer yes, the ball always becomes dead on catcher's interference - at the end of the play. At the end of the play, the proper enforcement is applied. The concept of "delayed dead" is simply there, and simply taught, to teach umpires to NOT immediately kill the ball when you have "delayed dead" infractions such as umpire interference, catcher interference, batter interference, balks, coach assistance interference, and type B obstruction.

This comment from Evans in describing umpire interference is pretty telling, if you ask me:

The rule book mistakenly states in both 2.00 Interference and in the prefix of 5.09(b) that the ball is dead. The ball is not dead until the result of the play is known (a delayed dead ball). At that time, the proper enforcement of
the rule should follow.

This statement by Evans seems to answer your question as I have, with a "yes."

I just fail to see the purpose or any educational benefit of stressing that "delayed dead ball" is not in the OBR, when the enforcement principle of delayed dead ball most assuredly is.

From talking with Jim about this issue, I believe he uses. and places parethentically, the term (delayed dead ball) as recognition that some are familiar with with the term. None-the-less, he does stress that a delayed dead-ball does not exist under "Major League Rules". (I have never heard him use the term "OBR")

It may appear to be semantics to some, but I see a distinct difference. Why not attend one of the classics this year and get this firsthand?

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by GarthB

From talking with Jim about this issue, I believe he uses. and places parethentically, the term (delayed dead ball) as recognition that some are familiar with with the term. None-the-less, he does stress that a delayed dead-ball does not exist under "Major League Rules". (I have never heard him use the term "OBR")

It may appear to be semantics to some, but I see a distinct difference. Why not attend one of the classics this year and get this firsthand?

A Desert Classic is probably not in the cards anytime soon, but I do hope to make any weekend clinic he puts on within reasonable travel distance next time it's available. I missed a Texas opportunity a few months ago and really regret not trying harder to attend.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

A Desert Classic is probably not in the cards anytime soon, but I do hope to make any weekend clinic he puts on within reasonable travel distance next time it's available. I missed a Texas opportunity a few months ago and really regret not trying harder to attend.

The problem with the week-end clinics is that there is just not enough time for a decent number of reps in any of the drills. I suppose it's better than nothing, but I think you'd be disappointed.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

A Desert Classic is probably not in the cards anytime soon, but I do hope to make any weekend clinic he puts on within reasonable travel distance next time it's available. I missed a Texas opportunity a few months ago and really regret not trying harder to attend.

Dave & all,

Desert Classic is back in 2006! http://www.umpireacademy.com/desert_classic.php