Ball thrown to 1st base after BB/Walk ????

[snailpace]

Originally Posted by nickrego

Could you be more specific about the Walk.

Was it a Walk on 4 pitched Balls, or an Issued Walk ?

In some leagues, NFHS included, when you issue a Walk (elect to not pitch to the batter), the ball becomes dead. Hence, throwing to 1st is a no call, and can be considered a delay of game, if the ball isn't back to the pitcher when the next batter is ready.

4 ball walk ---I was livid about it/runner turned to second he was tagged he was an out that turned into a next batted dbl---- rbi. So I had my catcher stop doing it that game..

I spoke to the league admin about it after answers here and he also agreed it was a legal play and would council that blue.

You guys roxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Thanks,
Snail

[snailpace]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

that isnt why you do it...come on...

Actually it is -- at this level of play the arms are still seeking targets and from my own catching experience it helps set the arm up for the steal. Muscle memory is what my coach told me and it really works well for distance judgement. Then the catcher sets up his throw as a throw over the pitchers head and with the known throw to first he puts the right amount of oomph on it to second. Serious......

Whenever catchers at this level whom arms are underdeveloped throw they have a hard time judging how hard to throw. This really helps a lot because they can easily hit 1st or 3rd but find it harder to hit second. We have a huge league and finding a catcher with a cannon thats not on the trny team is very difficult.

Two definitions of the why and it does get some bb/runners who make the turn.

Snail....

[snailpace]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Since this is a Little League Juniors game, there are no issued walks. Four pitches are required at every level of Little League baseball, despite what some coaches tried to slip past me lately! The ball remains alive and in play, and no such rule exists that requires the catcher to throw it back to the pitcher before it can go to another base. Somebody making up their own rules again.

Umpire Working Little League

Ammended ruling that you didnt have to pitch the ball and could ask for a intentional walk in the juniors division.

Why is the intentional base on balls rule different in the Little League Division than in the upper age divisions? In the 13-and-up divisions, could the defense intentionally waive a batter to first at any time in the count?
Andy:
The rule was passed by the volunteer district administrators at the Congress in Virginia Beach last year, so it was really up to them. There’s more info here: http://www.littleleague.org/media/04congressends.asp. The “automatic” intentional walk in the 13-and-up divisions can only be invoked if there is no count on the batter.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Since this is a Little League Juniors game, there are no issued walks. Four pitches are required at every level of Little League baseball, despite what some coaches tried to slip past me lately! The ball remains alive and in play, and no such rule exists that requires the catcher to throw it back to the pitcher before it can go to another base. Somebody making up their own rules again.

Umpire Working Little League

Steve:

Pitches are not required to issue an intentional walk in juniors and above in Little League.

8.04

Note.

[JUNIOR/SENIOR/BIG LEAGUE BASEBALL: Intentional Walk - Before a ball is delivered to the batter, the catcher must inform the umpire-in-chief that the defensive team wishes to give the batter an intentional base-on-balls. The umpire-in-chief waves the batter to first base. The ball is dead.]


Tim.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by snailpace

Actually it is -- at this level of play the arms are still seeking targets and from my own catching experience it helps set the arm up for the steal. Muscle memory is what my coach told me and it really works well for distance judgement. Then the catcher sets up his throw as a throw over the pitchers head and with the known throw to first he puts the right amount of oomph on it to second. Serious......

Whenever catchers at this level whom arms are underdeveloped throw they have a hard time judging how hard to throw. This really helps a lot because they can easily hit 1st or 3rd but find it harder to hit second. We have a huge league and finding a catcher with a cannon thats not on the trny team is very difficult.

Two definitions of the why and it does get some bb/runners who make the turn.

Snail....

I'm sorry, but I must agree with Brian. That explanation sounds like such BS.
It's a play used to catch an opponent napping,which is fine.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Since this is a Little League Juniors game, there are no issued walks. Four pitches are required at every level of Little League baseball, despite what some coaches tried to slip past me lately!

Umpire Working Little League

At Junior, Senior, and Big League levels, a dead ball intentional walk can be issued. Rule 8.04 in your Woody Woodchuck Manual:

Junior/Senior/Big League Intentional Walk Rule: Before a ball is delivered to the batter, the catcher must inform the umpire-in-chief that the defensive team wishes to give the batter an intentional base-on-balls. The umpire-in-chief waves the batter to first base. The ball is dead.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

At Junior, Senior, and Big League levels, a dead ball intentional walk can be issued. Rule 8.04 in your Woody Woodchuck Manual:

Junior/Senior/Big League Intentional Walk Rule: Before a ball is delivered to the batter, the catcher must inform the umpire-in-chief that the defensive team wishes to give the batter an intentional base-on-balls. The umpire-in-chief waves the batter to first base. The ball is dead.

You know, I thought that was the case, and I looked and looked in the book and couldn't find it. I was about to post the same thing, as I thought I remembered that JR/SR/Big had the automatic walk rule. I even remembered that it was different than the FED rule in that it had to happen before a pitch to the batter.

I did not even think to look in Section 8. I looked in Definitions and base on balls said when 4 balls are delivered to the batter, so I thought I must have imagined it. Then I looked in the RIM and it said the same thing under rule 6.08 on how a batter becomes a runner, and again it said 4 balls were required. By this time I thought perhaps I was just losing my mind (and Jon Lovitz was reaping all the benefits). You would also think that Intentional Walk or words to that effect would be listed in the index, which they're not.

[RPatrino]

Last I looked, the fact that the batter turned toward second after reaching first on a walk did not place him in jeopardy (except in FED). I thought the BR had to make an attempt to advance toward second??

[SanDiegoSteve]

The batter must return immediately to first after overrunning it. Making a left turn at the base in the direction of 2nd is considered an attempt. Merely turning around to the left and going back to the base after running straight though the base is not.

[snailpace]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

I'm sorry, but I must agree with Brian. That explanation sounds like such BS.
It's a play used to catch an opponent napping,which is fine.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Napping is good but if you knew my teams stats you would think its an awesome truth.

7 year LL title holders and noone stole on us. It was pure luck or overthrown pitch if they made it.

If your a catcher throwing the ball back to the pitcher---that in itself creates a muscle memory---- that at this age--- judging distance becomes a task. It helps ..... Serious...

But I do like the red lipstick---matches our team jersey.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The batter must return immediately to first after overrunning it. Making a left turn at the base in the direction of 2nd is considered an attempt. Merely turning around to the left and going back to the base after running straight though the base is not.

That FED ruling is on a batted ball only, where the batter reached 1B safely. On a 4 ball walk,the batter runner CAN be tagged out if he touches 1st and then overstepps or walks past.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Making a left turn at the base in the direction of 2nd is considered an attempt.

By whom????

[SanDiegoSteve]

The batter-runner who just walked.

[RPatrino]

Making a turn toward second and returning immediately to first is NOT an attempt to advance to second. In LL, the catcher throws to first on a BOB in an attempt to dupe an umpire into calling the BR out if the runner over-runs first or if the BR "turns left". The BR does NOT have to turn right in order to be safe.

I hope some of us aren't being duped by that move. Get it right!!!

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The batter-runner who just walked.

The rules are different for a batter who walked than for a batter who got a hit?