More Questions To Rack Your Brain

[gruberted]

Here we go again, always looking for suggestions or advice.

1. A kid during the inning calls timeout and crosses the foul line to go talk to his coach. Would this be considered a visit.

2. When a player is hit by the ball, is it an immediate dead ball and runners go back to their bases?

A coach problem.

I was wondering what you would do in this situation.

A coach has been complaining about the strike zone throughout the whole game. So one pitch is well off the plate and I call it a ball. He immediatly goes "call the game fair" so in return I say "that's enough coach". So he immediately walks toward me but his son holds him back (another coach on the team). I ignored him completely and continued the game in which he simmered down a tad.

The next week I had the same exact coach still complaining about the strike zone throwing his arms in the air on where that pitch is and what is a strike, in which I said in the beginning of the game, strike zone is big have the kids swing the bats not many walks today. I called anything that was close but he was complaining about pitches that were hitting the plate and so on and so forth. So again I took off my mask and told him that was outside. He continued to complain to his other coaches. Where do you draw the line to toss this coach as I may have him again later this week.

Finally, when coaches don't have the catchers ready or don't even use the speed up rule and they wait until the pitcher has thrown warm up pitches are you allowed to give a delay of game warning for the team. (This league is quite bad with no urgency to hussle, which I blame the coaches for, and the kids take one shin guard 5 minutes to put on. One of my fellow umpires issued a warning and said next time you will start with an out in your half inning. Is that correct?

I appreciate you reading my rambles, and look foward to responses.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by gruberted

1. A kid during the inning calls timeout and crosses the foul line to go talk to his coach. Would this be considered a visit..

Yes

Originally Posted by gruberted

2. When a player is hit by the ball, is it an immediate dead ball and runners go back to their bases?.

Immediate dead ball if it's the batter or a runner. Play on if it's a fielder.

Originally Posted by gruberted

A coach problem.

I was wondering what you would do in this situation.

A coach has been complaining about the strike zone throughout the whole game. So one pitch is well off the plate and I call it a ball. He immediatly goes "call the game fair" so in return I say "that's enough coach". So he immediately walks toward me but his son holds him back (another coach on the team). I ignored him completely and continued the game in which he simmered down a tad..

The rules say that arguing a judgement call is unsportsmanlike conduct. Penalty-Ejection
If you're looking for a chance to eject him and appear reasonable doing it, he gave you a great opportunity when he implied you were an unfair umpire. See ya
If you decide even then to be a nice guy and just let him off with "that's enough coach" and then he starts toward you in an apparently confrontational tone. See ya

Originally Posted by gruberted

The next week I had the same exact coach still complaining about the strike zone throwing his arms in the air on where that pitch is and what is a strike, in which I said in the beginning of the game, strike zone is big have the kids swing the bats not many walks today. I called anything that was close but he was complaining about pitches that were hitting the plate and so on and so forth. So again I took off my mask and told him that was outside. He continued to complain to his other coaches. Where do you draw the line to toss this coach as I may have him again later this week..

If you decide to be really nice and let last weeks antics slide and this week he's trying to teach you the strike zone with sign language. See ya

But therein lies the problem, you were too nice. By letting last weeks antics go, you've empowered him to be even more animated this week.
It won't get better until you draw a line.
Do you want to allow constant complaining?
Threatening body language?
condescending animation?
Personally, none of the above is acceptable in my world.
There are ways to get your point across prior to ejection, but ejection gets the point accross fairly quickly.
Since you have set a fairly lenient standard in your first two games with this coach, i would suggest you make it very clear in pregame that you won't tolerate complaints about judgement calls, which includes balls and strikes. Then be prepared to act quickly.

Also, I suggest you never identify your strike zone,even when asked.
When i'm asked about my zone before the game I respond
When you see this (I show them my strike mechanic) it's a strike. If you don't see it it's a ball.

When they see you calling nose to the toes they'll know it's a big zone.

Originally Posted by gruberted

Finally, when coaches don't have the catchers ready or don't even use the speed up rule and they wait until the pitcher has thrown warm up pitches are you allowed to give a delay of game warning for the team. (This league is quite bad with no urgency to hussle, which I blame the coaches for, and the kids take one shin guard 5 minutes to put on. One of my fellow umpires issued a warning and said next time you will start with an out in your half inning. Is that correct?

I appreciate you reading my rambles, and look foward to responses.

1. You can never threaten starting with one out or implement such.
2. There's no penalty for a catcher taking longer than you want to get ready.
But the second he gets behind the plate you can begin play if their one minute is up.

[Rich Ives]

1. A kid during the inning calls timeout and crosses the foul line to go talk to his coach. Would this be considered a visit.

If it's the pitcher, yes.


If it's another player who then goes to the pitcher, yes.


Anything else, no.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by gruberted

Here we go again, always looking for suggestions or advice.

1. A kid during the inning calls timeout and crosses the foul line to go talk to his coach. Would this be considered a visit.

Which kid?

2. When a player is hit by the ball, is it an immediate dead ball and runners go back to their bases?

Which player?

The next week I had the same exact coach still complaining about the strike zone throwing his arms in the air on where that pitch is and what is a strike, in which I said in the beginning of the game, strike zone is big have the kids swing the bats not many walks today.

Why on earth would you begin a game discussing your strike zone? You might as well say, "Okay, have your players guess what a strike is and feel free to chirp as the spirit moves you."

Finally, when coaches don't have the catchers ready or don't even use the speed up rule and they wait until the pitcher has thrown warm up pitches are you allowed to give a delay of game warning for the team. (This league is quite bad with no urgency to hussle, which I blame the coaches for, and the kids take one shin guard 5 minutes to put on. One of my fellow umpires issued a warning and said next time you will start with an out in your half inning. Is that correct?

So your fellow umpire makes rules up as he goes along?

Wow.

[akalsey]

When a player is hit by the ball, is it an immediate dead ball and runners go back to their bases?

Depends on which player you're talking about, where they're at, and why the ball hit them.

If a offensive player is hit with a batted ball in fair territory, he's out and the ball is dead. Unless he was immediately behind an infielder. If a batter is hit with a pitched ball, the ball is dead.

In each case, the runners return to their time of pitch base. In the first instance, the batter is awarded first, so runners may advance as far as they are forced to do so by this award.

If a defensive player is hit by a batted, thrown, or pitched ball, it is a live ball. If a offensive player is hit by a thrown ball, it is a live ball.

[SAump]

A great learning opportunity.

Perhaps you may decide that this coach is providing his players and fans an incentive for disrupting "your" ballgame. This coach is obviously some bit actor as he is trying to draw your attention to a play. When he crosses the line, what actions will you take?

You will have to learn to ignore coaches, players and fans who react differently to certain situations. Do not communicate with coaches during a live ball situation. He is baiting you. Never respond. Keep you head in the game. These type of coaches go ballistic after a bad call goes against them and after a good call goes against them. See the pattern and do your best. Once you ignore these coaches, you earn their respect and they stop acting a bit different.

How are you going to handle it? You'll see this behavior everywhere. It will not go away. There is no "perfect" button. You have to learn not to let this bother you. This becomes your chance to GROW as an umpire as it tests your mettle and ability to stay rationally in control of the game.

Oh, it gets better with time as you gain confidence and experience.

Good luck,
---------------------------

[RPatrino]

Believe it or not, coach's will try to play with you and mess with your mind. If they think their antics can influence a future call in their favor they will do it.

You can't let a coach or player chirp at you constantly during the game about your strike zone. An occasional reaction is normal, but a constant barrage of verbal criticism must be stopped. And never mention your "zone" before a game, if they ask just say, "what does the rule book say, coach?".

As for the time between innings, you control that, not the players. If you are ready to go, then go. Don't wait. If the pitcher is just standing there, waiting for his catcher, then go to the bench and hustle up the catcher. The pitcher is NOT entitled to a single warm-up pitch if a minute has elapsed.
If you are waiting for a batter, just call play and call the pitches. The problem with the leagues lackadaisical attitude is the umpires fault. Teams will take every minute you give them, and want more.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by GarthB

You might as well say, "Okay, have your players guess what a strike is and feel free to chirp as the spirit moves you."

you never stop making me laugh, garth.

Originally Posted by gruberted

I said in the beginning of the game, strike zone is big have the kids swing the bats not many walks today.

try not doing this. i was taught back when i was just starting that if a coach asks about the zone in pre-game, you can respond with "you can find the strike zone in the book, coach." being that the zone is in the book, i wouldnt come right out and tell coaches you are going to disobey the rule book and make the zone enlarged. while some have wider zones, taller zones, book zones, etc...keep our zone to yourself and call it.

Originally Posted by gruberted

I called anything that was close but he was complaining about pitches that were hitting the plate and so on and so forth. So again I took off my mask and told him that was outside.

if you are calling anything that is close, you are going to start calling pitches that are close to being close. then before you know it, the zone consists of any pitch that leaves the pitchers hand. nail down a zone, stick to it. the one in the rule book often works.

also, dont tell this guy where pitches are at. he can use his eyes, depth perception...and the one thing people NEVER use, the catcher. the catcher can tell you just by how he moved where the ball went. let the coach figure it out, its not your job to tell him where his pitches are missing.

Originally Posted by gruberted

He continued to complain to his other coaches. Where do you draw the line to toss this coach as I may have him again later this week.

its hard to say since you opened up a few doors that shouldnt have been opened.

Originally Posted by gruberted

Finally, when coaches don't have the catchers ready or don't even use the speed up rule and they wait until the pitcher has thrown warm up pitches are you allowed to give a delay of game warning for the team. (This league is quite bad with no urgency to hussle, which I blame the coaches for, and the kids take one shin guard 5 minutes to put on. One of my fellow umpires issued a warning and said next time you will start with an out in your half inning. Is that correct?

i thought delay of game was a 5 yard penalty?
unless this is stated in a league's rules, you cant just makeup penalties like that. sure, everyone likes a game to keep moving, but you cant just say "well your catcher wasnt out here, so he has to take his cup out and catch without it" and make things up.

[DG]

I generally ignore the coach who is complaining about balls and strikes the first 3-4 times, unless he is loud enough about it and then it would be 1-2 times. Then I stop play and ask him if he is complaining about balls and strikes. If he says YES, he has admitted guilt and he is tossed. If he is smart he will not answer the question, and get quieter.

If he says "call the game fair" and steps out of the dugout towards me, the first step out of the dugout I toss him.

[waltjp]

I will tolerate an isolated moan or 2 on close pitches but I will not let it become a habit and will rarely let a coach complain on more than one pitch in the same inning. If I sense a trend starting I stop it.

I have very little to say to coaches or players when they start moaning about calls. When it's time to quiet a coach I keep the words to a minimum, usually, "Coach, that's enough. Let's play ball." That is his warning. Anything he says after that I find objectionable is enough to get him tossed.

After an ejection all conversation is over. If you're working with a partner he should be astute enough to step in if needed. If you're working alone and need help removing a coach from the field find the next in charge and tell him that the game is subject to forfeiture if the ejected coach does not leave - then walk away and let him handle it.

Never say anything about "one more word". A coach will challenge you on it.

I'm not looking to toss a coach or player but when the time is right I let them know that I've heard enough. The key is nipping it early. If you let a coach complain about your zone for the first 5 innings don't expect it to stop in the 6th if you tell him you've had enough.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Never say anything about "one more word". A coach will challenge you on it.

While I agree with this advice, there is a close cousin to that line that I have found to be reasonably successful. "Coach, not another word about balls and strikes" gets the message across with authority and specificity. Fortunately, I haven't had to use that line for at least 3 years.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by gruberted

1. A kid during the inning calls timeout and crosses the foul line to go talk to his coach. Would this be considered a visit.

Is this 'kid' a player other than the Pitcher ? - Not a visit
Does he talk to the Pitcher after he talks to the coach ? - Yes, a visit
Is he the Pitcher ? - Yes, a visit

Originally Posted by gruberted

2. When a player is hit by the ball, is it an immediate dead ball and runners go back to their bases?

Only if the player is a member of the Offensive (batting) team, and it was a batted ball. Other rules will govern, depending on which Offensive player was hit.

Originally Posted by gruberted

A coach problem.

I was wondering what you would do in this situation.

A coach has been complaining about the strike zone throughout the whole game. So one pitch is well off the plate and I call it a ball. He immediatly goes "call the game fair" so in return I say "that's enough coach". So he immediately walks toward me but his son holds him back (another coach on the team). I ignored him completely and continued the game in which he simmered down a tad.

The next week I had the same exact coach still complaining about the strike zone throwing his arms in the air on where that pitch is and what is a strike, in which I said in the beginning of the game, strike zone is big have the kids swing the bats not many walks today. I called anything that was close but he was complaining about pitches that were hitting the plate and so on and so forth. So again I took off my mask and told him that was outside. He continued to complain to his other coaches. Where do you draw the line to toss this coach as I may have him again later this week.

A coach, that is worth keeping around, will ask his catcher about your zone, before they start to bark at you. In any case, give an early warning, and a quick ejection if it continues, or it will continue throughout the season. If you have lots of different coaches consistently complaining, ask a fellow umpire to evaluate your Zone, but don't tell the coaches. Just keep ejecting them.

Originally Posted by gruberted

Finally, when coaches don't have the catchers ready or don't even use the speed up rule and they wait until the pitcher has thrown warm up pitches are you allowed to give a delay of game warning for the team. (This league is quite bad with no urgency to hussle, which I blame the coaches for, and the kids take one shin guard 5 minutes to put on. One of my fellow umpires issued a warning and said next time you will start with an out in your half inning. Is that correct?

Every league has a rule about how many warm-up pitches / time between innings the defense has to get ready. The first time it happens, ask the coach to send someone out to warm up the pitcher, while the catcher gets dressed. Count the pitches thrown to 'temp' catcher. If you don't get any cooperation from the coach, wait the amount of time in rules, put the batter in the box, tell the pitcher to pitch, and start issuing a Ball to the batter every 5 seconds until the catcher shows up. You will only have to do this once in your career.

[bluezebra]

He immediatly goes "call the game fair"

In my games that was an immediate trip to the parking lot. Attacking my integrity was a no-no.

Bob