Overthrow question... I know its been answered before.. humor me.

[Fisk]

I know this has been asked a million times.

Chalk it up to community service for those answering.

Runners on 1st (A) and 2nd. (B)
Ball hit to outfield and runners proceed towards 3rd and 2nd respectively.
Ball is overthrown and goes into dug out on the play.

Runner A reaches 2nd and Runner B reaches third before ball goes out of play.

Obviously Runner B gets to go home. The question is ...What base does Runner A who was past 2nd get?

Thanks... Also is there a link to offical baseball rules online?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Fisk

I know this has been asked a million times.

Chalk it up to community service for those answering.

Runners on 1st (A) and 2nd. (B)
Ball hit to outfield and runners proceed towards 3rd and 2nd respectively.
Ball is overthrown and goes into dug out on the play.

Runner A reaches 2nd and Runner B reaches third before ball goes out of play.

Obviously Runner B gets to go home. The question is ...What base does Runner A who was past 2nd get?

Thanks... Also is there a link to offical baseball rules online?

The award on a throw made by an outfielder is 2 bases from the time of the THROW. It has nothing to do with the position of the runners when the ball enters the dugout. So R2 scores. R1 will be awarded third unless he already reached second before the ball left the outfielder's hand, in which case he'd score, too.

[pob14]

Originally Posted by Fisk

Also is there a link to offical baseball rules online?

Rich (of course) nailed the first part of your question. As to this part, yes, there is a link, right here.

[Fisk]

Ok... so to clarify with another example...

R1 is on first and gets in a run down while trying to advance to 2nd base. To avoid being tagged out R1 retreats back towards first and the ball in overthrown and goes out of play. (Behind 1st base)

R1 would then be awarded 2nd and 3rd correct?


Last one...

Batter hits ball to 2nd basemen who playing deep bobles the ball and attempts to throw the ball to 1st However Batter (who is now a base runner) crosses 1st base before the 2nd basemen has thrown the ball which then goes out of play. Is batter (r1) awarded 2nd and 3rd?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Fisk

Ok... so to clarify with another example...

R1 is on first and gets in a run down while trying to advance to 2nd base. To avoid being tagged out R1 retreats back towards first and the ball in overthrown and goes out of play. (Behind 1st base)

R1 would then be awarded 2nd and 3rd correct?


Last one...

Batter hits ball to 2nd basemen who playing deep bobles the ball and attempts to throw the ball to 1st However Batter (who is now a base runner) crosses 1st base before the 2nd basemen has thrown the ball which then goes out of play. Is batter (r1) awarded 2nd and 3rd?

For the first play, you are correct. R1 gets third base on the ball thrown into DBT. This is regardless of whether or not the throw by the second baseman was the first play by an infielder, as he was on first at TOP.


For the second play, this was the first play by an infielder, so the two base award would be from the time of the pitch. This would leave the batter-runner on second, not third.



Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Fisk

Ok... so to clarify with another example...

R1 is on first and gets in a run down while trying to advance to 2nd base. To avoid being tagged out R1 retreats back towards first and the ball in overthrown and goes out of play. (Behind 1st base)

R1 would then be awarded 2nd and 3rd correct?

Correct 1st base + 2 bases = 3rd base

Last one...

Batter hits ball to 2nd basemen who playing deep bobles the ball and attempts to throw the ball to 1st However Batter (who is now a base runner) crosses 1st base before the 2nd basemen has thrown the ball which then goes out of play. Is batter (r1) awarded 2nd and 3rd?

Again, correct.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Fisk

Ok... so to clarify with another example...

R1 is on first and gets in a run down while trying to advance to 2nd base. To avoid being tagged out R1 retreats back towards first and the ball in overthrown and goes out of play. (Behind 1st base)

R1 would then be awarded 2nd and 3rd correct?


Last one...

Batter hits ball to 2nd basemen who playing deep bobles the ball and attempts to throw the ball to 1st However Batter (who is now a base runner) crosses 1st base before the 2nd basemen has thrown the ball which then goes out of play. Is batter (r1) awarded 2nd and 3rd?

First play, you're correct.

Second play, it depends on if there are other runners. If the batter-runner and ALL OTHER RUNNERS have obtained the next base, award two bases from the time of the throw. Otherwise, it's first play by an infielder and all runners are awarded 2 bases from the time of the pitch. In your situation (no other runners), award third.

[Fisk]

Ok..

Here is a descrepancy amoung the replys . Which are all apreciated by the way.

For the second play, this was the first play by an infielder, so the two base award would be from the time of the pitch. This would leave the batter-runner on second, not third.

This is different than

Second play, it depends on if there are other runners. If the batter-runner and ALL OTHER RUNNERS have obtained the next base, award two bases from the time of the throw. Otherwise, it's first play by an infielder and all runners are awarded 2 bases from the time of the pitch. In your situation (no other runners), award third.

Can someone clarify?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Fisk

Ok..

Here is a descrepancy amoung the replys . Which are all apreciated by the way.




This is different than




Can someone clarify?

Yes. Tim (BigUmp56) was (possibly) wrong.

The award is two bases from TOP on the first play, unless all runners had advanced a base. In your play, the batter runner had advanced a base (and since you didn't mentione any other runners ...), so the award is tow bases TOT -- third base.

[BigUmp56]

Rich is correct. I missed that the BR had already obtained first at the time of the throw.


Here's the applicable rule and subsequent casebook comment.


7.05(g) Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to he put out, advance two bases when, with no spectators on the playing field, a thrown ball goes into the stands, or into a bench (whether or not the ball rebounds into the field), or over or under or through a field fence, or on a slanting part of the screen above the backstop, or remains in the meshes of a wire screen protecting spectators. The ball is dead. When such wild throw is the first play by an infielder, the umpire, in awarding such bases, shall be governed by the position of the runners at the time the ball was pitched; in all other cases the umpire shall he governed by the position of the runners at the time the wild throw was made.

Official Notes - Case Book - Comments: APPROVED RULING: If all runners, including the batter-runner, have advanced at least one base when an infielder makes a wild throw on the first play after the pitch, the award shall be governed by the position of the runners when the wild throw was made. In certain circumstances it is impossible to award a runner two bases. Example: Runner on first. Batter hits fly to short right. Runner holds up between first and second and batter comes around first and pulls up behind him. Ball falls safely. Outfielder, in throwing to first, throws ball into stand. APPROVED RULING: Since no runner, when the ball is dead, may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled, the runner originally on first base goes to third base and the batter is held at second base. The term "when the wild throw was made" means when the throw actually left the player's hand and not when the thrown ball hits the ground, passes a receiving fielder and goes out of play into the stands. The position of the batter-runner at the time the wild throw left the thrower's hand is the key in deciding the award of bases. If the batter-runner has not reached first base, the award is two bases at the time the pitch was made for all runners. The decision as to whether the batter-runner has reached first base before the throw is a judgment call. If an unusual play arises where a first throw by an infielder goes into stands or dugout but the batter did not become a runner (such as catcher throwing ball into stands in an attempt to get runner from third trying to score on passed ball or wild pitch) award of two bases shall be from the position of the runners at the time of the throw. [For the purpose of Rule 7.05(g) a catcher is considered an infielder.] PLAY. Runner on first base, batter hits a ball to the shortstop, who throws to second base too late to get runner at second, and second baseman throws toward first base after batter has crossed first base. Ruling - Runner at second scores. (On this play, only if batter-runner is past first base when throw is made is he awarded third base.)


Tim.

[Fisk]

I just want to conclude by saying thanks..

You guys have been great and I hope you will in the future help me with further clarifications.

Although the link to the rules was great and I was able to follow your explanations right along with the official rules.


Also are any of these ruling different in Little league, high school, or college baseball?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Fisk

Also are any of these ruling different in Little league, high school, or college baseball?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Little League bases the majority of the rules on OBR (pro) rules. There are many modifications, but the code is basically the same. Safety issues, pitching regulations, etc. are modified.

High School uses NFHS, or National Federation of High School Associations rules. This is what we shorten to FED, short for Federation. These rules differ significantly in many areas, and are dummied down so as to be supposedly easier to enforce on a wide scale. www.nfhs.org

NCAA and NAIA have their own rules too. Google search NCAA Baseball Rules and you can get the rules on .pdf format.

Here is a link to some common myths and misconceptions about the rules. Enjoy.
http://www.lzbsa.org/rules%20myths.htm

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

NCAA and NAIA have their own rules too. Google search NCAA Baseball Rules and you can get the rules on .pdf format.

NAIA uses the OBR with modifications.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

Reading through the thread, I was wondering if anybody was going to catch where the batter/runner had crossed the base before the throw from the second baseman and award him third.

Yeah, I kicked that one when I first read the post. Rich and Bob set me straight though.


Tim.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by LDUB

NAIA uses the OBR with modifications.

bingo.
http://naia.cstv.com/member-services...bbrulemod1.htm (it says its from 2004 but i cant find anything on the web that differs)