Civility

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Jeff:

I have to say that I was impressed by your last post. It was probably the most concise and meaningful post I've seen you write. You're absolutely right, in that it's very much about simple respect. I don't care if they like it or not, but there has to be a certain amount of accountibility when information is imparted incorrectly by certain individuals. What sets the more prominent members of this board apart from a very select narrow minded individuals is their ability to accept a measure of accountibilty for the information they impart. I respect, and think most of us resect, a man who is willing to say he make a mistake. We have a few that I believe argue for the sake of arguing. These individuals could care less whether or not we respect them, and in turn afford no one else any respect.

I also hear a lot of this "admit a mistake" stuff from you and others. How are you going to make a mistake on an opinion? I think opinions are the essence of this place. Even when we talk about many rules there are interpretations that are given and vary by whom you work for and where you live. I know just where I live and what part of the state you are in there are many philosophies that vary. Tip O'Neill used to say, "Politics is local." Officiating is the same way. And when we talk about things often it is not going to resonate with everyone when we all have very different experiences. Having met and worked with officials from many surrounding states, it is very common that we all do not share the same attitudes and expectations in our officiating. I remember conversations here about keeping players in the batter's box brought many points of views and experiences and all were not the same.

Peace

[SAump]

Thank YOU BLUEUMP, your post was a breath of fresh air. Nice try.

A finer kettle has never been posted on this website.

I think I just read the Hippocratic Oath.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by spots101

Besides, what is Poot anyway....it's just a word.
Sticks and stones dude.

I do not claim to know the term's origin; I do know a comedian that uses the term quite often. I am thinking that is where the usage here came from.

Peace

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I also hear a lot of this "admit a mistake" stuff from you and others. How are you going to make a mistake on an opinion? I think opinions are the essence of this place.

Opinions are absolutely the essence of this place, well put. We don't require legal names to have one and only ask that the response be well thought and written, thus avoiding confusion.

However, opinions can be erroneous. If I opine that you are a transgender Martian who has never read a rule book, would I be mistaken? If my opinion that a pitcher doesn't have to engage the rubber to deliver a pitch am I correct? Opinions are the lifeblood of discussion boards and many are incorrect. We see time and again newbie umpires think that the hands are part of the bat. That is their opinion and they would be wrong. Some may think that amateur umpires are independent contractors while others will point out that this is a regional definition. What BU56 was getting at was that when you blunder, you have the intestinal fortitude to admit it. Sometimes it is a bitter pill to swallow, but if you want to be strong and act like a man, you may be forced to eat your written words.

I hate to admit it, but there was a point in my early career that seemed like I would never get the hang of our passion. I would assume calls, engage my mouth but contradict it with my physical call and argue with coaches. I realized that growing some thick skin, manipulating the system and slowing down were all part of the success equation. Sure, I blow calls every now and then - I've even been known to admit them to the right skipper. Over a beer or Jack Daniels, I've told stories of making the wrong call at the wrong time. Being able to realize your mistakes and capitalize on that awareness makes good umpires great.

[SAump]

The regular INMATES have already accounted for SIX premium spots in my batting lineUP. Asking for anyone with playing experience. Who would you put in the other three spots on this very LOUSY TEAM.

Leading off: JRUT, need someone like HIM at the top of the lineup.
Batting second: SAump, handles the SAC well
Batting third: PWL, doesn't have great power but a solid hitter
Cleanup: Windy, thinks he has all 5 tools

Battting fifth: Large OPENING within
Batting sixth: HELP wanted inside
Batting seventh: Aim to fill HIGHER vacancy

Batting eight SDS, sorely needed as the infield utility player
Batting ninth BIGump, Can't HIT worth a shOt, but he throws a mean riser.

[BlueLawyer]

WWTB: here are my points. Again.

1. I can disagree with you without being disagreeable. I can disagree with your call without thinking you suck as an umpire or as a human being. I can disagree with your internet post, and say so, without engaging in character assassination. I can disagree with you without calling you names, questioning your ancestary or in general telling you that you are the biggest idiot ever to don a mask.

2. We (officials) are all in this together, to some degree, greater or lesser. My fellow blues are my competition, true. But before that they are my colleagues and my teammates. If they succeed, to some extent, I succeed. If this wasn't true, I'd throw my partner under the bus every time he booted a call and say something to the effect of "You're right, coach. He really does suck. I can't believe he's working this level of ball either."

If you don't think this is family, I have genuine sorrow for you.

Criticism is indeed the path to better officiating, and therefore, ultimately, better competition. Criticism should be constructive to acheive its intended goal, however. "Zega, you should have been deeper at C to see the play better. Here's where you need to be," works much better than, "Zega, you suck. That's something I would expect from a University of Arkansas grad. Quit umpiring now and save us all the embarassment of you being on the field. I hope you law better than you ump, or you're going to starve."

"I'm in it for me. Only me. Period." That attitude will lead to an awfully lonely and unfulfilling career. IMHO.

Strikes and outs!

[BigUmp56]

This is exactly the kind of nonsense I was talking about, SA. You have shown on numerous occasions that you know very little about this game except how to formulate unsubstantiated opinions that are near worthless. You are a rookie at best and a long time Smitty at worst, yet you continue to engage the more knowledgeable posters on this board in matters of which you have no understanding. Take the carelessly thrown bat issue for example. How many other officials told you that you were off base in your line of thinking? Way too many for you to keep arguing, yet on and on you went. At some point, a reasonable man would have thought to himself that he may need to re-think his position. However, as you're not a reasonable man, you no doubt cannot grasp this concept. As I have it right now, you're batting a big o-fer' on this forum.


Tim.

[Carbide Keyman]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

This is exactly the kind of nonsense I was talking about, SA. You have shown on numerous occasions that you know very little about this game except how to formulate unsubstantiated opinions that are near worthless. You are a rookie at best and a long time Smitty at worst, yet you continue to engage the more knowledgeable posters on this board in matters of which you have no understanding. Take the carelessly thrown bat issue for example. How many other officials told you that you were off base in your line of thinking? Way too many for you to keep arguing, yet on and on you went. At some point, a reasonable man would have thought to himself that he may need to re-think his position. However, as you're not a reasonable man, you no doubt cannot grasp this concept. As I have it right now, you're batting a big o-fer' on this forum.


Tim.

It is best to ignore those who choose to deal in specious nonsense.

They are like mimes, better not seen AND not heard !



Doug

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

WWTB: here are my points. Again.

1. I can disagree with you without being disagreeable. I can disagree with your call without thinking you suck as an umpire or as a human being. I can disagree with your internet post, and say so, without engaging in character assassination. I can disagree with you without calling you names, questioning your ancestary or in general telling you that you are the biggest idiot ever to don a mask.

2. We (officials) are all in this together, to some degree, greater or lesser. My fellow blues are my competition, true. But before that they are my colleagues and my teammates. If they succeed, to some extent, I succeed. If this wasn't true, I'd throw my partner under the bus every time he booted a call and say something to the effect of "You're right, coach. He really does suck. I can't believe he's working this level of ball either."

If you don't think this is family, I have genuine sorrow for you.

Criticism is indeed the path to better officiating, and therefore, ultimately, better competition. Criticism should be constructive to acheive its intended goal, however. "Zega, you should have been deeper at C to see the play better. Here's where you need to be," works much better than, "Zega, you suck. That's something I would expect from a University of Arkansas grad. Quit umpiring now and save us all the embarassment of you being on the field. I hope you law better than you ump, or you're going to starve."

"I'm in it for me. Only me. Period." That attitude will lead to an awfully lonely and unfulfilling career. IMHO.

Strikes and outs!

The problem here is that we have a few individuals that will not accept any form of criticism, however constructive, without responding with personal attacks. We have an individual here who tried to explain to us why he felt it was appropriate to throw his partner under the bus on a non balk call. He rambled on and on about how bad his partner kicked it by not calling an obvious balk. When we pointed out to him that all balk calls are a shared responsibility he responded with all sorts of insults. As the thread went on we all found out that the real fact was he had nary a clue as to how to call a balk himself. Still, he persisted in whining like a school girl that we were picking on him instead of sucking it up and learning from other more experienced officials. I could go into detail about how this child believes in make up calls and had little insight into the nuances of the rules, but by now I hope you get the point. There has not been one single individual who has pointed out his errors that wasn't atacked personally.


Tim.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

WWTB: here are my points. Again.

Blue,

You are dealing with a person that claims to live in my area, talks about people by name while hiding his name, says things to people here he has never said to their face (talking about people in our area) and has flat out lied on people by making claims he cannot back up. Then he claims he knows more than everyone here while dropping his resume but no one here fits that kind of background. At least no one fits that background currently.

I would think someone with so much knowledge and the respect he claims to have in our area would want do lift up umpiring instead of tearing it down. This is why I pretty much ignore him.

Peace

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

Quit making all those childish, stupid little posts you make and I'll stop calling you Poot, Poot.

What post's would those be? The ones where he has tried to tell you that you were incorrect? You've insulted him not only as an umpire, but as a man as well. You've made ridiculously rude comments about his job, his wife, and even his health. You've done all of this because you cannot accept the fact you know little about umpiring. Maybe you impress the JV umpires in your association with smoke and mirrors, but here you fool no one.


Tim.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

This is exactly the kind of nonsense I was talking about, SA. You have shown on numerous occasions that you know very little about this game except how to formulate unsubstantiated opinions that are near worthless. You are a rookie at best and a long time Smitty at worst, yet you continue to engage the more knowledgeable posters on this board in matters of which you have no understanding. Take the carelessly thrown bat issue for example. How many other officials told you that you were off base in your line of thinking? Way too many for you to keep arguing, yet on and on you went. At some point, a reasonable man would have thought to himself that he may need to re-think his position. However, as you're not a reasonable man, you no doubt cannot grasp this concept. As I have it right now, you're batting a big o-fer' on this forum.

Tim.

There you go pointing your big finger again, or should I say TAIL END Queen Bee. Your PARTY crosses the lines of civility and hound others for retaliation and insult. NOW you think you own the rulebook on civility and your little group of under-PRIVILEGE kids get to run this show. You have shown and some of the other umps on that same post how little you have to add to the discussion. That is a shining example of delete/edit thread opportunity as you can find on this board at the present time.

Why don't you swallow your own words and take it like a man and admit that you refused to call that thrown bat INTERFERENCE rule by the book? Then again why don't you post your FED 3-3-1 rule and explain how it must be interpreted in an OBR ballgame. Please explain how those LL sources I quoted to back up my "PERCEPTION" were wrong. "Who are they," you ask. You just don't get it. I showed you the bathroom door and its time you enter, close it, and do your business.

You insist on doing this in public, very civil.

[UmpJM]

BlueLawyer,

Good post to start this thread. I started posting on this forum a little over a year ago, and had "lurked" for about a year prior to that. From my perspective, I can assure you that the AMLU strike is not the source of what you find distasteful in this forum. It was going on, to greater and lesser degress, well before then.

When I do post on this forum, I do my best to be civil. I am not above making the occasional sarcastic remark, but I don't go looking to pick fights with people. Out of respect for the members of this forum, I take some care with what I write so that it is coherent, I do my best not to publish misinformation, and I try to refrain from posting when I have nothing to say that will contribute to the conversation.

The internet is a wonderful and terrible thing. I know I have learned a lot from both reading and posting on this forum. One of the things that make it both wonderful and terrible is that pretty much anybody can say anything he wants on the internet, without any of the repercussions that might occur in a face-to-face or even "non-anonymous" conversation. On a few occasions over the last year (three, if I remember correctly), I have gotten into "tiffs" with other members of this forum. In each case, I had my say, they had their's, and it was over. I am sure this is true from my perspective, and I believe it is from their's. But some things I can't control. I continue to have conversations with these people, and occasionally "argue" (but I hope in a good way), because I respect their knowledge, experience, and willingness to share both.

There are other people on this board whose existence I do my best to not acknowledge publicly in ANY WAY. I have never addressed a post to any of them, I have never responded to a post they have made, I have never directly referenced or quoted the content of one of their posts (except exactly once), and I have not even mentioned their names, except on the rarest of occasions.

They are TROLLS (one of the "terrible" things about the internet). In my opinion, the current TROLL population of this board is three. In my experience, the only way to deal with trolls is to completely ignore them. This is not always easy to do. But until everyone does, they will continue to pollute this forum with their juvenile drivel.

In my experience, umpires can be a cranky lot - not by nature, but rather because of the nature of what they do. They are charged with the burden of being paragons of calm and rationality, even when lunatic coaches engage in insanely disrespectful behavior towards them because they didn't like the call the umpire just made - which, most likely, was the correct call. Sometimes it is very embarrassing to be a coach.

So, if some of them feel the need to come here occasionally and "blow off a little steam", I really don't begrudge them. I wish they wouldn't, but I have neither the right nor the authority to tell them they shouldn't, and I'm certainly not going to waste my time trying.

Apparently unlike some members of this forum, I have never had any luck with teaching a pig to sing. Maybe it's me, but it could just be the pig.

Again, nice post. Welcome to the forum.

JM

[NFump]

Don't listen to SA!

[SAump]

"They are TROLLS (one of the "terrible" things about the internet). In my opinion, the current TROLL population of this board is three. In my experience, the only way to deal with trolls is to completely ignore them. This is not always easy to do. But until everyone does, they will continue to pollute this forum with their juvenile drivel."

I learn something new every day.

Timmie C only mentioned two before he retired.

Who is this newest member of the trolling community?

Please ID the person who calls you RAT most often.